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SF4 Biweekly TACV 09: Gouken

March 16th, 2010 Leave a comment Go to comments

Gouken can create free juggle states with seven different moves, whereas most characters only have lvl2/lvl3 Focus Attacks to rely on. However, only four of his attacks possess inherent juggle potential, none of which are particularly versatile. Furthermore, he’s remarkably unique within the Shoto family, so it’s interesting to experiment with visually familiar yet functionally divergent attacks inspired by Ryu and Ken’s moveset.

0:11 Gouken’s HK Hyakkishu -> Hyakki Gosai is an air-to-ground throw, so crumple stun is the only way to combo it. Dash canceling a Focus Attack doesn’t give Gouken enough time it before the opponent falls over and becomes airborne. Yet he can land it after trading a lvl3 Focus Attack with pretty much anything, due to the massive amount of impact freeze caused by Focus Attacks. See how much sooner Gouken starts reeling from Zangief’s far s.HK compared to how much longer it takes Gief to begin animating from Gouken’s lvl3 Focus Attack?

0:18 Gouken’s only two repeatable free juggle setups are his Gohadokens and the first hit of j.MP, both demonstrated here. The first hit of HK Tatsumaki Gorasen doesn’t create a free juggle state if the opponent is already in air reel when it connects, but the whole thing connects anyway because the remaining hits have inherent juggle potential.

0:26 Dan’s Jumping Taunt propels him ridiculously high into the air, giving Gouken enough room to juggle five Gohadokens – one charged HP, two HP, one MP, and one LP – then cancel into HP Forbidden Shoryuken for all seven hits. This combo inflicts 510 damage and 460 stun.

0:35 Gouken’s dash speed combined with his quick Focus Attack startup allow him to link a dash-canceled lvl3 Focus Attack into lvl2 Focus Attack before the opponent falls over. However, comboing Gouken’s lvl2 EX Focus Attack after any single-hit Gohadoken still requires the projectile to travel for at least one frame before connecting. Gouken’s B+LP+LK throw is exceptional because it neither causes damage nor registers on the combo counter. What it does do is create a free juggle setup without even putting the opponent into conventional air reel – which means the first hit of HK Tatsumaki Gorasen still creates a free juggle state when it connects, which allows the first hit of j.MP to connect as another free juggle setup, which allows the first hit of Shin Shoryuken to connect. This combo deals 443 damage and 615 stun.

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0:53 Stringing together three LP Gohadokens as shown only works against Dhalsim and Abel due to the particular way their hitboxes lean forward. Of course it wouldn’t dizzy Abel so that leaves only Sim. It would’ve been nice to add another fireball before the EX Senkugoshoha, but unfortunately it only combos from hard attacks and even then only if Gouken doesn’t have to travel for too long. This combo causes 624 damage.

1:18 All Kongoshin versions create a free juggle state as initial launchers, but not when they hit an opponent during air reel. Their lengthy recovery time normally prevents followups, but FADC takes care of that problem. Rose’s backward j.LK triggers Gouken’s HP Kongoshin which creates a free juggle state, then HP Gohadoken creates another free juggle state, and Rose’s LP Soul Spark triggers another HP Kongoshin. The first hit of Shin Shoryuken has no juggle potential so it whiffs as expected, then three hits of the secondary animation juggle. Unfortunately the remaining three hits whiff because that last Kongoshin can’t elevate Rose high enough to stay within range of the entire Shin Shoryuken, which generates surprisingly meager vertical lift on its own. This combo totals 481 damage and 370 stun.

1:29 Gouken’s charged EX Gohadoken deals 240 base damage, knocks down, installs repeatable free juggle setups, and only counts as one attack on the reduction scale. Even the uncharged version deals 140 base damage. With the way SF4’s combo reduction works, it’s very difficult to come up with anything better for Gouken to do. This combo clocks in at 905 damage against Seth in Training Mode. As far as i can tell, the only way to increase that number would be to replace the MP Senkugoshoha with an HP version, which seems too slow. Sadly, this combo can’t be tested against Akuma because his standing hitbox is too short and his air reel hitbox is too compact.

This is a tool-assisted combo video recorded with two ASCII PAD V Pro programmable controllers. Absolutely no cheats, hacks, or game-altering devices were used in the making of.

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  1. March 16th, 2010 at 18:35 | #1

    Sorry sirs and ma’ams, looks like this episode will have to be delayed once again, but i’ll try to have it out by the end of the week.

    Not to make too big a deal out of it, but here’s the story if anyone cares. A long time ago, error1 showed me some combo ideas involving Gouken’s Kongoshin counters. Eventually those clips got submitted to New Blood 3, which is right around the corner. I was hoping it’d be finished in time for me to release my Gouken TACV without delays, but no luck there. It’s nobody’s fault; sometimes these things just happen.

    The problem is Gouken isn’t exactly a versatile combo character so those counter concepts are simply too major to leave out. But obviously i want everyone to have the chance to see error1’s versions first, especially since mine’s very similar. Once again, i’m very sorry about these repeated delays, but it’s out of my hands.

  2. Climax
    March 16th, 2010 at 18:54 | #2

    MAJ YOUR WASTING TIME!!!! haha just kidding.
    we really aren’t able to see some unique combos from every character before SSFVI comes out… anywayy can’t wait for Gouken TACV

  3. kofplayer
    March 17th, 2010 at 09:35 | #3

    NB3 is already released on CX. =)

  4. March 17th, 2010 at 12:51 | #4

    Cool, thanks for the heads-up. Looks like the u2b version isn’t out yet and the majority of people are waiting for that. It’s better to hold off until that’s released, then maybe an extra day to give everyone a chance to watch it.

    If they post the u2b version today or tomorrow then i’ll upload the Gouken TACV Thursday or Friday.

  5. zero
    March 17th, 2010 at 18:16 | #5

    It is never too long to wait an excellent work.

  6. March 17th, 2010 at 20:12 | #6

    you don’t have to delay it for me. Frankly I was surprised no one else had already come up with those. Everyone’s had a chance to see the cooler one in the trailer

  7. MF KRINK!
    March 18th, 2010 at 00:51 | #7

    im jonesing! ASAP

  8. March 18th, 2010 at 02:06 | #8

    error1: No sense rushing it after it’s already been this long. It’s only a matter of days now. Either way it’s not going to impact the upcoming TACV schedule any further. Hopefully they’ll upload NB3 to u2b tomorrow so i can release this on Friday. It’s already bad enough that most of my viewers will see it embedded on random SF news sites so they probably won’t even hear about NB3 beforehand. On the plus side, this whole situation did give me time to work on more SF4 screenshots, some of which turned out pretty dang sweet.

  9. jamheald
    March 18th, 2010 at 10:40 | #9

    If there’s is no video can you answer a question instead then please? Apparently in ssf4 Rose can FADC her hp reflect into ultra one, does this mean she should be able to do anti air f+hk into ultra one?

  10. March 18th, 2010 at 11:07 | #10

    If they added juggle potential to her ultra, then yes. If they added a free juggle setup to her HP Reflect, then no.

  11. onreload
    March 18th, 2010 at 11:12 | #11

    /eagerly munches on food with anticipation

    take your time, gouken sure did…you know, being unconscious for a few games and somehow staying alive without eating.

  12. jamheald
    March 18th, 2010 at 11:25 | #12

    Ahhh could be as it also combos into reflect now. Ahwell I hope they just increased the juggle potential one those moves. Anti air f+h,k soul throw would be awesome. New ultra has juggle potential but lacks range so that looks like corner only. It’s looking good for my favourite characters, rose looks powerful, chun look amazing, fingers crossed for vega.

  13. jamheald
    March 18th, 2010 at 11:26 | #13

    Meant it combos it to throw now.

  14. wantonx
    March 19th, 2010 at 03:30 | #14

    I can’t wait for the gouken TACV! I’ve been hoping each time that the next one was my favorite old man. He has some sick stuff already and I can’t wait to see what Maj comes up with.

  15. March 20th, 2010 at 01:10 | #15

    Holy hell, NB3 -still- hasn’t been uploaded? It’s been four whole days!

    At this rate i may as well record a couple of Akuma combos to get him out of the way too. If i can get it done by this weekend, i’ll pair him up with Gouken.

  16. jamheald
    March 20th, 2010 at 02:57 | #16

    Sounds good to me.

  17. March 20th, 2010 at 11:09 | #17
  18. March 20th, 2010 at 12:28 | #18

    Alright cool. Guess i’ll upload Gouken tomorrow, with or without the Akuma combos depending on how much i can get done today.

  19. March 21st, 2010 at 16:00 | #19

    No Akuma this time, because i only came up with two halfway interesting things and didn’t even have time to capture the second one. He’s gotta be the blandest flashy character ever. Everything’s so predictable with him. In all this time i’ve only seen maybe three SF4 Akuma combos that i actually liked.

    However i did end up recording an extra Gouken combo so yesterday wasn’t all a waste. I’m encoding now, so it’ll be uploaded in a couple of hours.

  20. March 21st, 2010 at 18:34 | #20

    Sweet, triple-posting on my own blog. So classy.

    Anyway vid’s up. Hopefully it was worth the wait. I’ll write up the transcript tonight, so check back tomorrow morning for detailed explanations. Or join in the discussion with everyone else who prefers to figure it out on their own. I’m sure we’ve got enough SF4 combo experts here at any given time to answer any questions.

  21. March 21st, 2010 at 19:12 | #21

    I suspected you could get a fireball in between the two counters vs rose but I didn’t try it vs a jumping character

  22. jamheald
    March 22nd, 2010 at 00:07 | #22

    @Maj
    Classiest and most inventive akuma combos ice seen are the uppercut xx super, uppercut ones. Anyway great vid, first 100%.

  23. March 22nd, 2010 at 00:50 | #23

    Why? It gives you literally nothing. If canceling into super created a free juggle setup like it does in CvS2EO, that’d be one thing. But as it stands it’s a flashy waste of meter. You could just as easily do uppercut against a jumping opponent’s extended limb, land way before them and uppercut again. There’s no incentive for it whatsoever, especially since you can FADC for half that cost and recover in time to do anything you could possibly want.

  24. jamheald
    March 22nd, 2010 at 02:12 | #24

    I like it because it’s a flashy waste of meter.

  25. March 22nd, 2010 at 02:20 | #25

    Eh, i’ll use it if i can figure out a way to get even the tiniest advantage out of it. Otherwise it’s not for me. Anyway, some Gouken notes …

    You can do HP FB (charged) xx lvl3 Focus Attack against a high jumping opponent but then you don’t get a free juggle afterwards. This is interesting because i thought lvl3 FA always gave a free juggle but i guess not.

    Gouken can combo into EX rushpunch a number of ways, either using B+LP+LK throw as a setup to get both hits or juggling off HP FB to make the first hit of EX rushpunch whiff. But either way you don’t get a free juggle if the launcher connects in a juggle, so it’s another one of those starter-only limited juggle setups.

    The first hit of ground Hurricane Kick is a free juggle setup, but again only if it’s used as the launcher/starter. However, you can do Hurricane Kick xx FADC, Hurricane Kick and get full hits out of the second one because the rest has juggle potential. And in fact you can do certain combos where the first hit whiffs entirely and the rest juggles, but it’s hard to set up because those Hurricane Kicks take a lot of time to reach that point.

    With perfect spacing against certain characters (namely Abel), Gouken can actually link LP FB, HK Hurricane Kick – but only the first hit connects. It would still be nice to combo that since you could FADC and juggle with full ultra. But the problem is it’s pretty much impossible to combo into LP FB off any normal move without distorting the opponent’s hitbox and causing the fireball to connect too soon, taking away your frame advantage.

    Gouken can also kara-cancel far s.HK into HK Hurricane Kick for a significant range boost, but you have to do it like D, DB, neutral HK, B with the neutral HK pressed for 1 frame before you complete the Hurricane Kick motion. You can also do D, DB, neutral HK, B+LK to get whiff s.HK xx EX Hurricane Kick. It took me a while but i think i also figured out how to kara s.HK into LK and MK Hurricane Kicks. You have to start by holding LK or MK, then D, DB, neutral HK, B+HK+release LK or MK. None of this is in the video though because it doesn’t lead to better combos with Gouken. You can force it into a combo just for the sake of showing it, but you’d end up giving up hits. But maybe there’s some potential combo configuration that i’m overlooking.

    Also i had Dhalsim do ultra from almost full screen away then whiff s.HP and had Gouken hit it with ShinSho which teleports Sim into his cinematic fist. Then eventually Sim’s ultra ball shows up and passes right through Gouken. So it looks like they’re locked in pseudo-throw mode until the end.

  26. kofplayer
    March 22nd, 2010 at 02:27 | #26

    awesome stuff! it’s worth the wait.

    p.s. NB3 is up on YouTube, on Persona’s channel.

  27. jamheald
    March 22nd, 2010 at 02:57 | #27

    Gouken can combo into EX rushpunch a number of ways, either using B+LP+LK throw as a setup to get both hits or juggling off HP FB to make the first hit of EX rushpunch whiff. But either way you don’t get a free juggle if the launcher connects in a juggle, so it’s another one of those starter-only limited juggle setups.

    yeh I got annoyed when I tried that.

  28. Numsigmernen
    March 23rd, 2010 at 06:37 | #28

    The Honda combo left me wondering… Maj, what do you think would be the highest number of focus attacks in a single combo? (That’s probably El Fuerte vs Dhalsim, but in that case let’s ignore combos that require a Catastrophe for trades.)

    Also, is there any relation between those huge projectile combos and SF4 Combo Challenge 07 (Fireworks)? Did either of them inspire you to do the other, or anything?

  29. jamheald
    March 23rd, 2010 at 11:35 | #29

    @Numsigmernen
    I’ve seen a vid by doopliss whith I think 5 fa with Seth.

  30. March 23rd, 2010 at 12:40 | #30

    Numsigmernen: Seth’s tough to beat in that department, but i got 5 with Ryu in the first TACV too. The problem with the Yoga Catastrophe setup is that it requires a Focus Attack with a lot of range, so Fuerte’s was perfect for it. But then the problem with Fuerte is he can’t combo into lvl2 Focus Attacks otherwise. I’ll try to top that record once i get to the ideal character for it.

    And yeah, i love those challenge responses. For instance someone posted a 700 Class challenge with Gen that i can’t wait to experiment further with.

    The Gouken fireball combo developed from the Honda combo making me wonder if i could get three fireballs in a sequence – then i got it to work against Abel and then found that it dizzied Sim. In the back of my mind, i guess i was kinda looking for a way to answer that challenge, but the Dan combo is probably the more direct result of that.

  31. jamheald
    March 23rd, 2010 at 13:43 | #31

    In the dan combo instead of a lp hadouken could you have put in four exs into ultra?

  32. CYBORG_COP
    March 23rd, 2010 at 17:15 | #32

    So FA3 combos to FA2, but I’m guessing FA2 doesn’t combo to FA2 since that would be an infinite. Why does the former work and not the latter? I always thought FA2 and FA3 had the same crumple stun but I guess FA3 has more?

  33. March 23rd, 2010 at 20:07 | #33

    jamheald: Nah, you’d have to drop the MP fireball too, and even then Dan’s air reel hitbox isn’t ideal for repeated EX fireballs. I doubt you can even get more than one against him. There might be another dummy in the game who can be used for the combo you have in mind, but my other goal for that combo was to include Gouken’s super somewhere in the video.

    CYBORG_COP: Nope, lvl3 Focus Attack has noticeably longer crumple stun than lvl2 Focus Attack. And i haven’t seen anyone combo two lvl3 Focus Attacks yet so i don’t think there’s much danger there.

  34. jamheald
    March 24th, 2010 at 23:25 | #34

    Ahh dan does have weird hitboxs, like trying to do a Seth s.hk on him when he’s in crumple stun.

  1. April 7th, 2012 at 22:30 | #1
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