Have you ever wondered why Vega can combo an Izuna Drop after his EX Flying Barcelona Attack? You’re not supposed to be able to connect throws during hit stun, right?
It turns out the EX version of Izuna Drop isn’t a throw at all. It’s actually an unblockable hit. How can you tell? Simply head into Training Mode and set Counter Hit to ON in the Training Options menu, then test the move without connecting anything before it. Hits will trigger the “Counter Hit” message but real throws won’t. To save you some time, here are my findings.
All universal ground throws and standard air throws are true throws.
Zangief’s Spinning Piledriver, Flying Power Bomb, and Atomic Suplex are all true throws. Honda’s Oicho Throw is a true throw. Vega’s regular Izuna Drop is a true throw but his EX Izuna Drop is an unblockable hit.
Abel’s Tornado Throw is a true throw. Falling Sky is a hit. Finish Mid and Finish Low are both blockable hits. El Fuerte’s Fajita Buster, Propeller Tortilla, and Flying Giga Buster are all true throws. Guacamole Leg Throw is a hit. Rufus’ EX Galactic Tornado vacuum is a blockable hit.
Cammy’s Fatal Leg Twister and Crossed Scissors are both true throws. Fei Long’s Tenshin is a true throw. Rose’s Soul Throw is a true throw. Gen’s Jyakoha and Ryukoha are hits.
Seth’s Spinning Piledriver is a true throw. Seth’s Tanden Engine vacuums are weird! EX Tanden Engine seems to be a simple hit, but regular Tanden Engine acts almost like a blockable throw. Akuma’s Hyakki Gosai, Raging Demon, and Wrath of the Raging Demon are all true throws. Gouken’s Hyakki Gosai is a true throw.
It’s basically impossible to determine whether strictly anti-air hits such as Abel’s Falling Sky or Gen’s Jyakoha are blockable. They simply whiff against grounded opponents and SF4 doesn’t have air blocking. The closest substitute is Gouken’s Hyakki Goheki armor, which works against El Fuerte’s Guacamole Leg Throw and Abel’s Falling Sky, but not Gen’s Jyakoha or Ryukoha.
unblockable hit
blockable throw
weird
I suppose these are special moves.
hit can be trade.
throw has a range.
So that explains why sometimes Guacamole and Falling Sky sometimes trade for ABEL and ELF. I’ve always found it funny that they do so despite them being “throws” lol.
I was wondering what Hyakki Goheki did…thought it was just a feint. The more you know ~
Ha I was going to ask you this. If it’ll trade it’s not a throw. I noticed something weird with tandems too, normal isn’t armour brake but will pull people out of a fa were as ex armour breaks the focus, I suppose it is a hit to allow juggles.
Interesting that you wrote about this. I was actually thinking of asking you your opinion on air throws in SFIV, if they existed at all. My reasoning was that many of the attacks that are considered ground-to-air or air-to-air throws (Falling Sky, Ryukoha) can be comboed into, therefore they are not true throws. And since there’s no air blocking in SFIV, there isn’t really much point in implementing an air throw mechanic, so the remaining air throws that are harder to test would probably be simple hits too.
But I didn’t think of testing the counter hit property. I guess you just proved there are indeed a few true air throws.
Trading with a throw is normally a sign it’s not a true throw, but soul throw can be traded with so it’s not a true test.
Can gens air throw trade? I’m not sure I’ve seen it.
@error1
I don’t get that. Maj?
@error1
I missed the part about Soul Throw being a true throw. I agree that’s weird, since it can trade. Futhermore, on super it’s known to be combo-able, but of course, they could have changed its nature.
As for Gen, I’ve never seen either of his anti-airs trade.
Numsigmernen: I guess they wanted certain “grab” specials to combo in free juggle state situations, but didn’t want that to be possible with standard air throws. It’s kinda arbitrary how they made Rose’s Soul Throw a true throw though. Maybe someone at Capcom hates that move?
error1: I’m fairly certain it’s impossible to trade with Soul Throw. It’s possible to interrupt it with a projectile like Akuma’s air FB, but that’s a different type of interaction. Looks like they simply forgot to turn Rose invincible after she grabs.
Maj, I’m almost completely certain I’ve traded with soul throw a few times. I can’t test it right now, though.
Numsigmernen: It’s pretty hard to get Gen’s anti-air super to trade. I’ve done it against random Dhalsim air limbs. You have to use the Gen’s HK version because it has the least invincibility. But Dhalsim just wobbles in the air for a while then lands on his feet, so it’s impossible to combo him afterwards. Or you can use something with invincibility frames. I’ve gotten Gen’s anti-air ultra to trade with Sagat’s EX Tiger Uppercut once. They gotta be standing pretty far apart and Sagat uppercut has to go under Gen, so he has to execute it after ultrafreeze.
how about Fei’s leg trick move? I still have a hard time finding a use for it other than expressing Fei’s last unlock-able fighter title, “Flashy fighter”
I like this a lot, I never would have thought to check stuff like this… especially Vega’s EX Barcelona.
Great read.
It’s funny that Vega can combo EX FBA grab after AA scarlet terror like here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOi6bEtKJQw .
Would it be true to say that – everything that is a hit rather than a true throw can be traded with given the oppertunity? I remember trading with Abel’s falling sky plenty of times but I can’t quite remeber if I’ve traded with Gen’s Jyakoha or Ryukoha. How have you discovered if Jyakoha or Ryukoha are hit’s – have you used the counter hit message as confirmation or have you traded… Or both :-)
If no one can trade with Jyakoha or Ryukoha wouldn’t that make them throw’s with counter hit potential? Oh wait – I forgot about invincible frames… Amature!
Killweir: Yeah it’s accurate to say that any non-invincible hit can be traded. Throws can’t cause counterhit. I have traded with Gen’s Jyakoha/Ryukoha. Mentioned the method in one of the comments above.
@Maj
Right, I’ve got to start thinking outside of my shoto box once in a while. It makes perfect sense that you could test such a thing with Stretch Armstrong. When you say Gouken’s Hyakki Goheki armor doesn’t work on Jyakoha/Ryukoha, does it break the armor or does it act like a throw and just pass through to connect?
Gen’s kick super/ultra don’t interact with Gouken’s armor at all. It’s like how Rose’s normal Soul Reflect doesn’t interact with EX fireballs; not even one-hit EX fireballs. Then again, Gen’s punch ultra ignores armor too.
I know you’ve already tested them now but would another way to go about it be to see if they could grab limbs?
jamheald: Yeah, that should work. Nice idea. Just gotta watch out for false positives, like attacks with terrible hitboxes whiffing against certain limbs.
engine stuff from a modding perspective:
throws can be juggled into if such a throw existed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyUW7-pS5kM
this is an example of me giving cammy’s airthrow juggle potential
still an airthrow but it has juggle potential.
as an experiment i gave gief’s spd the possibility to grab airborne opponents from cammy’s airthrow and then also gave it juggle potential and it can juggle, but not ground combo
Haha i don’t know what to make of that. I mean that’s just weird, but without a legit case to test, it’s kinda hard to tell what’s what. Maybe adding juggle potential to moves automatically changes the way they connect.