Home > Combos, Technical > SSF4 Month-One Combos: Postscript

SSF4 Month-One Combos: Postscript

Three weeks have come and gone since the long-awaited release of Super Street Fighter IV. Fourteen videos and hundreds of research hours later, we have a fairly sound idea of what the new characters and spare ultras are capable of. Obviously most of them will continue developing further, but the foundation is set.

Looking forward, the most dynamic characters appear to be Rose, Ibuki, and Juri. Although several dedicated specialists have begun experimenting with Rose’s unconventional Soul Satellite ultra, i feel we’ve only scratched the surface of its advanced combo potential. Sooner or later, someone will figure out the right combination of setup, spacing, and dummy selection to control how and when each orb connects.

Ibuki has access to a disproportionately large pool of combo tools: chains, jump-cancels, ground loops, air trajectory control, etc. She’s still a relatively straightforward character underneath, but none of her known combos seem fully optimized yet. In fact it’s pretty amazing how she doesn’t have an infinite considering all the infinite-prone tools she possesses. You have to admit, Capcom has done a commendable job of balancing her.

Juri’s Feng Shui Engine ultra is essentially a Custom Combo, which always require many months to explore and optimize. She also happens to be of the best dizzy characters in the game, in the sense that you can use all her super meter to knock someone dizzy and then still have something special for the post-dizzy combo, because you get to restore her Fuhajin fireballs. It’ll take ages to wade through this many possibilities.

In terms of useful dummies, Dudley and Guy are clearly at the forefront. Right now the SSF4 combo thought process literally begins with, “How can i make this not another rose combo?” Dudley’s Victory Rose is that good, not to mention his hitbox being one of the widest.

 
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Guy’s throw vulnerability is interesting, to say the least. Nobody quite has it figured out yet, but only the early part of Guy’s crouching hit stun animation is vulnerable to throws. It seems to last until one or two frames after impact freeze. Normally he doesn’t return to that state until after recovering, but it is possible to keep him in that state longer using projectiles, and possibly other instant attacks. If it’s as simple as that, then theoretically it should be possible to trade a hard attack with Guy’s c.LP and use the impact freeze advantage to continue the combo before Guy begins animating. However i only had time to test two or three setups for this and none of them panned out. Either way, it calls for further inspection.

Overall i’m happy with the game from a combo exploration standpoint. Not all returning characters inherited new combo pieces, but most did. Dudley, Guy, T.Hawk, and Juri make for interesting new combo dummies. And there’s quite a bit of design variety among the new characters, especially for fans of the Street Fighter Alpha and Street Fighter III series. I’m looking forward to seeing what SSF4 will play like at Evo2k10 and what its combo landscape will look like a year from now.

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  1. May 21st, 2010 at 21:35 | #1

    Once again i just want to thank everyone for bearing with me and not getting too annoyed when an episode was late. What often happened was i’d rush so hard to get clips recorded by the day’s deadline without taking breaks or anything, that i’d be completely exhausted by the time i had to edit the video. General sleep-deprivation didn’t help matters much either. So i’d try to take short naps while my computer was busy running time-consuming tasks like exporting and encoding, but whenever anything went wrong, the whole schedule would collapse.

    If i ever want to try anything like this again in the future, i definitely need to get as much prep work done beforehand as possible – instead of waiting until that first day to create an (imperfect) editing template and having to make constant adjustments along the way. Then again, the main reason that happened was because wrapping up the SF4 Bison/Akuma TACV kept me busy until literally the day before SSF4 was released.

    But it’s all good. Live and learn.

    Btw, thanks again to everyone who subscribed to my u2b channel as a show of support during this whole experiment.

  2. ZGiSH
    May 21st, 2010 at 23:32 | #2

    @Maj

    Thanks US for bearing with YOU? You must be crazy Maj, all that combo videos have gotten to your brain. We should be thanking YOU for bearing with US. Amazing, truly amazing combo videos have entertained me for the last month ( and even longer ever since the development of this site ).

    Never stop doing the combos!

    I think I speak for all your viewers when I say we really appreciate all your hard work.

  3. jamheald
    May 22nd, 2010 at 01:37 | #3

    @ZGiSH
    Ditto.

  4. kache
    May 22nd, 2010 at 09:22 | #4

    Just a request: could you please set the console in japanese? The english voice of makoto is terrible… :(

  5. lightnaros
    May 22nd, 2010 at 09:30 | #5

    I don’t think anyone has the right to be annoyed with your great work!

  6. May 22nd, 2010 at 11:06 | #6

    ZGiSH: Thank you sir.

    kache: Honestly i don’t even know what you need to do to unlock that option. I just stuck with all English voices for simplicity/consistency. I’m gonna go back to SF4 for a while, but if/when i ever return to SSF4, i’ll make sure to take a closer look at character voices.

  7. jamheald
    May 22nd, 2010 at 11:25 | #7

    @Maj
    Same as sf4, beat arcade. Personally I think to settle complaints you’d have to mix and match though.

  8. May 22nd, 2010 at 22:02 | #8

    That’s cool. I was looking forward to running through the game with a few characters anyway. Hopefully some of the endings are interesting. They said they weren’t going to make any more SF4 upgrade-sequels, right?

    Also i forgot mention a combo idea i never got around to testing properly. On Day Fifteen (at 0:29) i showed the first hit of Dudley’s Ducking Upper preserving a free juggle setup indefinitely. On Day Thirteen (at 0:27) i showed the second hit of Adon’s LK Rising Jaguar whiffing with proper spacing. Combining these two concepts might allow Dudley to get an extra rep or two out of that Ducking Upper juggle – possibly even approaching an infinite. I’ve tested it unsuccessfully on one or two characters, but that’s not nearly thorough enough. If any of you guys play Dudley, this might be worth a try.

  9. Smileymike101
    May 23rd, 2010 at 02:13 | #9

    So like, to make only the first hit hit, launching them, then allowing you to repeat this without FADC?

  10. kache
    May 23rd, 2010 at 07:09 | #10

    @Maj
    I don’t think you need to unlock japanese.
    If I’m not wrong you can change the voice language in the options of the game, like you did in SF4. :)

  11. May 23rd, 2010 at 07:31 | #11

    I must admit I got unpatient when an episode was late, but last thing I’d had done would’ve be blaming you. You’ve done a great job and against the clock which is harder. Props and keep it cool!

  12. jamheald
    May 23rd, 2010 at 08:06 | #12

    @kache
    No you do, you had to in sf4. Just beat arcade once and they’re all unlocked.

  13. Seggemlyuka
    May 23rd, 2010 at 08:22 | #13

    We thank your inspirational and intuitive work Maj!!!
    Helping us to discover what options have a character in “strange situations”. Giving us the key to be better players or better combo explorers! Can’t wait the time when you come up something special with Juri!
    About Juri. She is awesome! Trying to do a 30+ combo on Seth but that’s hard because the first sequence eats 3 super gauge, and somehow in the dizzy I’ need to build 5th super gauge, but I’ don’t know I’ have enough time to build the super meter with fuhajins, enter the Ultra I and start the post dizzy combo? Trying to that…

  14. kache
    May 23rd, 2010 at 10:16 | #14

    @jamheald

    No, wait, you had to beat arcade once to unlock the finetuning (aka to choose the voice for every character), but you don’t have to do the arcade to change all the voices at once.

  15. jamheald
    May 23rd, 2010 at 10:40 | #15

    @kache
    Oh really, well you kind of need that, some Japanese voices are horrible.

  16. jamheald
    May 23rd, 2010 at 11:31 | #16

    I found this sites twin http://www.bypassfanpages.com/

  17. May 23rd, 2010 at 12:22 | #17

    Smileymike101: Yeah. I’m sure they built the hitboxes in a way to prevent that but i’d also bet they missed a character or two.

    zellorz: Thanks for staying patient the whole time. I think only a couple of people made minor complaints about vids being late, but i couldn’t do much about it so i took it as a compliment.

    Seggemlyuka: Sounds pretty cool. Post a link when you get it recorded, yeah?

    kache: The way i have capturing set up, i can’t hear audio until after the clip is recorded. So i’d have to go out of my way to listen to all the characters individually to choose voices and i didn’t have that kind of time. I’ll take care of it whenever i get around to making more SSF4 combos. The way i look at it, even though many of the Japanese voices are better, some of the English ones are superior too. Only one or two of them are bad enough to be irritating and they’re mostly masked by the music anyway. Makoto’s not so great but i had no idea i’d be recording this many Makoto combos.

    jamheald: Um, i skimmed through a few pages but couldn’t find anything that website has to do with mine.

  18. ShaXan
    May 23rd, 2010 at 13:04 | #18

    Maj, he meant the setup and look of the site is the same (e.g. the top banner, the headlines and the comment area).

  19. May 23rd, 2010 at 13:26 | #19

    Oh it’s just a standard wordpress template called iNove. I asked on SRK about making this place look nicer and that’s the one i ended up going with.

  20. jamheald
    May 23rd, 2010 at 13:37 | #20

    The whole thing it’s the same template, look at the header.

  21. May 23rd, 2010 at 18:36 | #21

    So who actually has a good ending in this game? I kinda liked Guile’s intro and his rival fight with Bison, but his ending was completely empty.

    Ryu was boring all the way through. I kinda liked Ken’s intro because i enjoy the Ryu/Ken rivalry but then Ken didn’t even meet Ryu the rest of the way? And wtf? Do Ken, Sagat, and Gouken really have the exact same rival battles as they did in SF4? I picked Sagat because he had the best ending line in SF4, but nothing nearly as cool in SSF4. And i don’t even know what to think of Gouken’s ending. At least they all met, i guess?

    Viper and Bison were a total waste of time. I only bothered with her because i figured they’d advance the story through her but she did absolutely nothing. Bison’s intro was a nice plot summary but tells us nothing we didn’t already know and his rival battle is another recycled one from SF4, which is dumb because Juri totally should’ve been Seth’s sub-boss.

    It seemed like Cody was the only one they put any effort into, but they took the easy way out at the end instead of changing or resolving anything. Adon and Dudley had dope rival cutscenes, but their intros and endings sucked. (Btw Dudley vs CPU Fei Long is pretty dumb. Just keep doing Cross Counter and he’ll keep doing wakeup flamekick over and over.)

    Bleh, this is all a big disappointment. It’s sad that the ending credits are cooler than any of the endings.

  22. jamheald
    May 23rd, 2010 at 22:38 | #22

    I liked: dee jay’s because it was funny and guy’s.

  23. Smileymike101
    May 24th, 2010 at 03:54 | #23

    I think you can change the rival battles for the returning characters, which i have they have 2.

  24. kache
    May 24th, 2010 at 08:25 | #24

    @Maj
    That makes thing easier.
    From what I can read on the forums most of the players prefer the japanese voices, so if you can’t hear the audio you don’t have preferences in that, so just put the japanese ones, which are the most loved around.
    Ah, I can prove that: http://shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=197288

    If you don’t have time to try all the voices yourself use this thread as a reference: http://shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=238081

  25. Seggemlyuka
    May 24th, 2010 at 12:35 | #25

    @Maj
    Finally I’ broke the ice!
    Juri 33 Hits!
    This is my first attempt to break 30 Hits, so for the simpliest way I’ use Ultra I.
    The dizzy combo needs more calculating to maximize it because its just 10 Hits,
    but only 1 super meter used.
    I’ record it sooner and show you when I’ uploaded it.

  26. May 24th, 2010 at 12:46 | #26

    Smileymike101: Really? How?

    kache: Haha seems like that thread has no concensus whatsoever. I tried out some of the new Japanese voices yesterday and a lot of ’em are pretty bad. Adon, Cody, Dudley, and T.Hawk are all way more authentic in English.

    Seggemlyuka: Nice! Looking forward to seeing it.

  27. jamheald
    May 24th, 2010 at 13:10 | #27

    Don’t like jap dee jay, alot of the characters like that seem to just lose their accent.

  28. May 24th, 2010 at 13:15 | #28

    In any case, i’ll probably make a voice settings review post for SSF4 like i did for SF4 so everyone can provide input before i start making any more SSF4 combos. But like i mentioned before, that’s probably a few months away.

  29. Tarnish
    May 24th, 2010 at 18:25 | #29

    Maj :
    kache: Haha seems like that thread has no concensus whatsoever. I tried out some of the new Japanese voices yesterday and a lot of ‘em are pretty bad. Adon, Cody, Dudley, and T.Hawk are all way more authentic in English.

    I actually like Adon’s Japanese voice. I think it has more of a twinge of misguided youth, which is what I always thought of Adon and his arrogance. In english he just seems like… I don’t know, he just sounds like some purely douchebag person. I think Japanese Dudley has the right direction with the depth of his voice, but I’m not really a huge fan of either voice rendition. Not even in that whole typical “I WANT HIM TO SAY ‘LET’S FIGHT LIKE GENTLEMAN'” bandwagon.

    T. Hawk, I can see what they were going for in English… the dude speaking just makes me laugh uncontrollably when he says anything though. I don’t think a character like that can be taken seriously, but I just try to have fun with it. His Japanese voice still makes me think more of that old ST “HMMMMMMMMMM” than the English guy does, so that’s bonus points.

    Cody in Japanese… yeah, that’s probably one where if they didn’t bring back the dude from Alpha 3 and his “BINGO” and “HAH HAH”, they just weren’t going to win me over. I do miss Alpha 3 Cody’s old exclamations. Again, hearing him go “BINGO” during Final Destruction is very satisfying.

    Overall, I’m with you on the story. It just feels like a muddled, disjointed, unresolved mess and a waste of time. Maybe that Japan only anime does more, but if there’s one thing I’ve thought was stupid about Super Street Fighter IV and the way it tries to fit its story in… it seems like a whole lot of fluff that doesn’t go anywhere but to disappointment. I’ve always thought the whole Evil Ryu struggling with the Murderous Intent was over and done with in Alpha in a very satisfying way. Knowing that in every match I see Ryu fighting in in IV he’s giving into the killing intent just makes him super goofy.

    And I definitely still hate how he looks in IV. Caveman angry Japanese dude.

    Can’t win ’em all, I guess.

  30. zem
    May 24th, 2010 at 19:29 | #30

    pretty sure they announced they’re patching out guy’s throw vulnerability when they release the tournament dlc, along with other things like fei long’s infinite on juri and the unblockable ultras

  31. onreload
    May 24th, 2010 at 19:32 | #31

    “It just feels like a muddled, disjointed, unresolved mess and a waste of time.”

    Streeeet Fighter!!

    I don’t know ALL of the Alpha plot, so I can (as expected) comment on SF3’s (and SF4’s) plot and how it would be a lot cooler if it weren’t for a few things:

    1) Gill’s character design. He’s not very threatening when he’s BRIGHT BLUE and BRIGHT RED in a man-hammock. The Greco-Roman thing was fairly interesting, though, but he looked like an American Flag with Macaroni & Cheese for hair…funny that it worked better on his head and pallete-swap, Urien. I thought Gill’s voice (3S more than 2I and NG) and character were good though – instead of cocky, delusional as all hell with his god complex to the point that his Resurrection and Seraphic Wing Super Arts resemble religious lore.

    Seth was too similar to what we’ve seen, a mixture of the usual boss attitude with the proper speech…and similarities in physical design have already been made to Urien, Gill, Mr. Clean, etc…I think the VA was pretty good (I only go by Japanese here, though I think his American counterpart did a good job) but as he’s a clone canonically, I guess it makes sense that he’s unimaginatively designed. (Look, sound, moveset being from other characters is also an old idea (MK series, Kuroko from Samurai Shodown). Wakamoto/Nishimura’s M.Bison is impossible to top as far as voice acting goes, though.

    2) For SF3, I’m sure a lot of people want to know what happened to the other SF2 characters who weren’t mentioned…maybe not try and squeeze them in the game a la SFA (bringing in SF1 and FF made sense here, but the later (SFA3) backwardsness didn’t, to me), but mention them in the canon, I guess. SF4 might be fresher in everyone’s heads, and as we all know, too many characters just don’t make any sense, plotwise. To me, SF3’s plot was more airtight because they chose to exclude older characters. Of course, this is obviously problematic…the “Who the hell are these guys?” phenomenon.

    I also find it stupid that Seth is part of a numbered series of clones for a corporation’s weapons project, and Abel is a failed experiment learning of his past.
    Twelve was part of a numbered series of clones for a cult’s weapons project, and Necro is a failed experiment trying to break away.

    I kind of refer to SFIV (and especially Super) as “Street Fighter vs. Street Fighter,” but it’s also like one of KoF’s dream match entries (98, 2002). Both of those KoFs are considered two of the best, though. Alpha 3’s roster (once SFA3 Upper or console version emerged) got very cluttered but that’s what people asked for.

    Some of the problem with individual storylines ending is that they don’t want to close any doors, and some characters definitely live on, as evidenced by SF3. (Ryu ALWAYS ENDS UP THROWING HADOUKENS AND WONDERING ABOUT SHIT REGARDLESS) As far as SF3 is considered (most recent in the timeline), Guile probably went home and was a family man (but not before some sad French kid saw him do some stuff), and M.Bison probably got bored or died or both or something…but if they showed that at the end of SF4, fans would cry themselves to death and then if they make Street Fighter 5 or whatever, they’d have to end up retconning it with “…but he DIDN’T REALLLLLLY GO AWAY” like they did for Bison already….or Gouken, jesus. “How long have I been unconscious?” in his SF4 opening, holy hell HOW DID YOU EAT, OLD MAN?

    It is kind of lame that they’re afraid to keep some characters in a tight story arc. Simple characters like Zangief or Honda are always ready to toss people around for no reason…but that doesn’t make for an interesting game plot overall. It’s a hard balance, just look at MvC2…who the hell cares about why Ruby Heart and Abyss exist, let alone Amingo? CVS2? Hell yeah, why not have the badass SNK boss eat the badass Capcom boss? God Rugal is borderline MUGEN but still classy enough for me.

    I think it comes down to the boss and his/her plan, really. SNK does this well, by making charismatic (and asshole-ish tough) bosses who may or may not reappear, but leave an impression on the player. I’m personally tired of seeing BISON BEHIND IT ALL, while Sagat has already settled nicely into being a regular character like the rest, not a sub-boss or final boss…with a terrible theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN-vuUaj_ug&fmt=18 )

    for the tl;dr version: basically…SF4 wasn’t unique enough. Why did Seth have to be tied to M.Bison’s grand plan? Why was it similar to SF3’s plot? Why is Seth a snoozefest? I think the answer is…if they didn’t keep things that way, they couldn’t have kept the characters going, and they couldn’t have made this an official part of the timeline…but as a die-hard SF3 fan, I do understand that SF3 was not very popular internationally for not following these rules, whereas SF4 was/is.

  32. Smileymike101
    May 24th, 2010 at 21:35 | #32

    Dudley’s Jap voice sucks badly.It could even be considered a fact.Did you even hear him saying Machine gun browwwwwww? It’s horrible.He sounds like an 80- year old grumpy man.Rowin sundah? No thanks, i want rolling thunder.His sf3 voice was english, not engrish, so it’s closer than that.Also, keep it classy is awesome.So it’s the way he says “the END!” at the end of Ultra 2.Jap version of the end is, well, screamed and retarded like eveything else he says.
    I do have most of my voice on Jap, as it generally seems to be better fle4shed out, but a lot of the new cast just sounds much better in english, like Hakan, Dudley, Dee Jay, Adon(although i also like his Jap voice, 50/50) and cody( but again 50/50, i like the way he says JackPOT! at the start of Ultra 1 in his Jap voice more)

  33. May 25th, 2010 at 00:38 | #33

    Well, i have no problem with most of the endings sucking because obviously most of them are gonna be contradictory nonsense in any game with 35 conflicting characters. But there should be some substance in about 1/3 of them at least. Instead i couldn’t even find one with any real plot to it.

    If it was my call, i’d pick about 1/3 of them to advance the main plot, about 1/3 of them to concentrate on rivalries and subplots, and about 1/3 of them to be comedy routines. But how hard is it to put a little effort into them? I mean, even non-animated storyboards with narrative would be better than 98347 animated clips of dudes walking and standing over cliffs.

    I don’t even have a problem with them handling the story in standalone anime form, as long as it’s included with the game. I totally enjoyed the one that came with SF4, because it was a lot of fun seeing the old Street Fighter characters interacting with each other and beating up new characters.

    I even liked the way they handled Evil Ryu, because even though it’s played out, it totally should be treated like “Oh you think you want this? No, you definitely do not.” Seeing him scare the hell out of C.Viper was easily one of the most satisfying moments in the whole film.

  34. supersonic1453
    May 28th, 2010 at 16:52 | #34

    @Maj

    I dunno if you still care about the Rival Battles, but triple punch picks one and triple kick picks the other. I think you have to hold it during the “Now Fight Your Rival!” thing.

  35. May 29th, 2010 at 02:40 | #35

    Just for the record, everyone has the same rival battle as in SF4. Ryu, C. Viper, Guile, Cammy, Chun-Li and Seth are the only ones who have a second, new, rival battle. The first time through arcade mode the game will default to the new rival battle if your character has one, on subsequent playthroughs you can choose which one you will get at the “Now Fight Your Rival!” screen by holding 3P for the new one and 3K for the old one.

  1. June 4th, 2010 at 06:32 | #1
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