It’s been a while since the last one, so here are some more random notes i’ve gathered while working on combo videos and the like.
Akuma’s air Hurricane Kick seems to be a one-time juggle setup, even if it only hits once. You can test this with a lvl3 Focus Attack against Dhalsim’s j.LP, followed by a rising HK air Hurricane Kick. The first hit connects, but the second hit whiffs. If you trade Akuma’s lvl3 Focus Attack against Dhalsim j.LP, you’ll have enough time to connect a descending HK air Hurricane Kick, so that it only hits once. Following up with an HP Dragon Punch only juggles twice.
It’s a good bet that Akuma’s LK Hurricane Kick works the same way, but it’s difficult to test because it has so much recovery time. It’s hard to tell if follow-up attempts are passing through the opponent or simply aren’t connecting fast enough. The problem is LK Hurricane Kick seems to launch opponents much higher when it connects on the ground as opposed to when it connects during a juggle.
Along the same vein, the last hit of Sakura’s EX Hurricane Kick appears to be a one-time juggle setup as well. Connecting it against Dhalsim j.LP, then following up with another EX Hurricane Kick finisher doesn’t create a second free juggle state.
Sakura’s Haru Ranman ultra has zero juggle potential on both initial hits, yet somehow the second spin still connects after the first one following an EX Hurricane Kick launcher. This suggests that her ultra grounds opponents, much like Seth’s EX Tanden Engine. Maybe she’s capable of ground-to-air combos, provided you can interrupt her ultra during a juggle? Unfortunately, her ultra causes about as much hit stun as a standard fireball, which means there are no viable trade setups available to her in SF4.
Most everything else seems to follow relatively straightforward juggle potential guidelines. Of course, the first wave of juggle numbers posted on forums such as SRK and even earlier articles here contained quite a few errors, but they’ve since been ironed out. I doubt we’ll run into any more exceptions as outlandish as Ken’s HP Shoryuken or Akuma’s HP/EX Shakunetsu Hadoken.
The focus seems to have shifted away from juggle combos, in favor of odd-looking mid-combo meaty links. Certain characters’ hitboxes tend to contort dramatically during hit stun, which allows some attacks to connect in later active frames, yielding more frame advantage.
There’s no easy way to find these types of combos. Although we now have a short list of usual suspects in Chun Li, Rose, Honda, Sagat, and Shotos, the process still usually comes down to roster-wide trial-and-error. It’s certainly nice to find one though, simply because it’s one of the few remaining avenues for surprising long-time players of a certain character.
Btw in case anyone’s wondering why i haven’t gone back and corrected the numerical errors in previous articles, it’s because i think that’s part of the fun of game engine exploration. Just seeing everyone try to scramble to grasp the combo system, then being able to point to specific early assumptions and say, “I disproved this and i corrected this.” Why would i want to deprive anyone of that pleasure?
You’re aware on working on a Juggle mechanics guide right? :P
But then that would be for SSFIV, so i can see why you refer to older articles… Though there are a few mistakes in Kich’s guide i don’tblame him, i remmeber throwing him corrections & set ups etc. But now that i’m doing it myself it’s actually quite a long process
– You have to test all hits in& out of Counterhits.
– You have to find a sufficient set up to test all hits in a standard knockdown state
– If i move causes float you have to find a set up that allows you to test if it can cause float again
– If a move doesn’t follow the standard that you could expect on juggle properties you have to discover how it might work. (Case in point, Akumas Shaku, Dudleys Dash Upper, Sonic Hurricane etc)
– It’s not really the most exciting way to play for 5 hours on the run :P
The contorting hitbox comment made me think of something you may or may not want to pursue. It would be interesting to see a video of outlandish missed hits/combos due to crazy hitboxes. Sort of a compilation of moments like in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TLDJgb8GBY) or the famous Sagat v Viper whiffed Ultra video. I remember in the early days of SF4 having problems getting attacks to connect on a dizzy Rufus, for example. Anyway, that’s just some food for thought, as if you don’t have enough ideas already.
i dont know if after lvl3 focus is an exception (it shouldnt be, its free juggle set up right?) but akuma can hit 2 hits of hk air hurricane kick against airborne opponents and follow up with a 2 hit srk. if one hit connects, a 3 hit srk will juggle after. i find it odd that only a 2 hit srk works after a 1 hit hurricane kick after a lvl3 focus.
@N00b_Saib0t
not that strange, akuma hk only provides a free juggle if the opponent isn’t in hit stun. Tons of moves work that way, from goukens counter to rufas’s far hk
Pokey86: That’s cool. I just haven’t seen one yet that didn’t have errors, so i’ve been testing almost everything on my own so far, at least for the characters i’ve explored for TACVs. Where are you planning on posting your guide when you’re done?
carminemac: Sounds like a cool idea, but i’m probably not the guy to do it because i’m too busy with prior committments. Though it’s funny you mention that specific example because i accidentally had Dan’s HK Hurricane Kick go over that part of Ken’s ultra1 animation.
N00b_Saib0t: Are you sure about that? I’ve tried HK air Hurricane Kick after anti-air lvl3 Focus Attack and it only connects once.
you may have misread my post, i was asking if you meant lvl3 focus attack specific, or just against airborne opponents in general. i think error1 got my point though, and he’s probably right. if they arent in airborne hit stun you can get a 2 hit hurricane kick to work, if they are it will only hit once.
Oh, yeah, that’s what i meant by “one-time juggle setup” in the second paragraph. It only works when they’re not already in airborne hit reel.
I’m very interested in Dan’s Hishou Buraiken’s juggling potential. In one of your post, all of his hits has incremental juggle potential so what kind of weird combo that can come of it? Can any of his hittable taunt be comboed with the super?
@Non-e
If you mean combo after it no, well not as far as I can see. Air taunt is out of the question as it doesn’t knockdown, or hit grounded opponents (I think). As for ground it doesn’t do enough hit stun for an interupt set up, and his fireball is too short for a trailing fireball set up.
SSF4 Dan’s air taunt can hit grounded opponents but it causes very little hit stun. He can’t cancel low taunt into super either. Neither taunt causes knockdown so juggling afterwards is out of the question. It’s pretty limited.
His super is kinda cool but he doesn’t have the tools to do anything special with it. If he had a launcher move with juggle potential then you could do anti-air lvl3 Focus Attack, fireball, launcher move xx super and he’d have time to whiff the first couple of attacks of his super and juggle some of the rest. But Dankukyaku is his only non-EX knockdown attack with any juggle potential which doesn’t launch them high enough to set up super juggles.