There seems to be some confusion regarding my choice to back away, and the motivations behind it. If ya’ll don’t mind, i’d like to explain my perspective one last time in depth.
I started making combo videos eight years ago and maintained a steady pace of 2-3 articles and 3-4 combovids per year for a long time. Anyone who’s ever made a decent combo video will tell you that it’s mentally and physically exhausting, especially towards the end of the process when you can see the finish line and all you want to do is get it over with.
Back in those days, i used to take three to six month breaks to recover between each project. That rhythm was more or less sustainable. From 2002-2008, i never had a single ad banner on my website and never made a single dime from Sonic Hurricane or any of my videos. And obviously it cost money to host them because this was before u2b existed.
Last year i decided to try a different approach. I installed this wordpress platform and began writing weekly technical and strategy articles, capturing weekly screenshots, and a lot more along those lines. I even borrowed a friend’s PS3 and started making SF4 combovids and preparing custom challenges every two weeks.
I thought if i went all-in with creating original content on a regular weekly basis, i could reach my arbitrary goal of earning minimum wage on the hours i invest here. That would enable me to continue treating it as sort of a part-time job for as long as people enjoyed my work. I gave myself six months to reach that objective.
It’s been fifteen months. Literally every minute of my free time has gone into this experiment, at a rate of 5-7 hours per day – more when i’m working on a video. So far it’s earning me barely $1 a day, most of which i’ve handed over to web hosts and the post office.
A lot of people are saying that i shouldn’t expect to make money because this is a hobby and it’s just video games. Well, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s exhausting. The fucked up sleep “schedule” i’ve been keeping since starting weekly updates is physically draining. In fact, i haven’t had a real break since 2006, when i started working on my Evo Guile video.
All that said, i would be perfectly happy producing undervalued content for the love of the community. Not at this pace of course, but i’m sure i could still be productive. Except now there’s no such thing as creating content purely for the community, because certain websites instantly convert it into profit for themselves, without giving anything back. It sucks all the joy out of what used to feel like a noble thing.
No, none of this is shocking or surprising. This always happens when any underground activity touches the mainstream spotlight. A lot of new people show up and appreciate it for what it is, but you also get a few “businessmen” who try to undermine what was already built there.
There will always be people who try to profit from others’ work whenever there’s a profit to be made, just as there will always be people who put on a nice suit and try to become the face of the community. I’m sorry but no amount of “it’s just business” or “that’s just how the internet works” is going to magically make it acceptable.
You have to understand, these “news sites” didn’t get famous by doing things we never thought of. They got famous doing things the rest of us were too considerate to do. It’s no accident that the most profitable site is the one that takes the most and gives back the least.
My only advice is, try to figure out whose primary goal is to help the scene and who’s in it for themselves. A lot of us have been serving the community for many years, without any hope of financial support whatsoever. Simply put – either you take care of content producers or the content stream dies. Taking care of the middlemen doesn’t help/count/matter.
In any case, i’ve done all i could and my goal still isn’t within reach. If it was going to work, it would’ve happened already. After fifteen months, i have conclusive proof that my six-month experiment has failed. (Obtaining it wasn’t cheap either.)
“One more month” is a pretty good way to fuck up my life beyond repair. I’ve got a lot of ground to make up as it is, just to get back to where i was fifteen months ago. I’ll be okay no matter what happens, but it’s just not feasible to continue.
So that’s the situation, and i’m okay with stepping away. It was worth a shot and i gave it my best, so i don’t have regrets. And i got to cross a lot of things off my to-do list, like writing about footsies and getting namedropped in a StarCraft article without playing StarCraft. It’s too bad it didn’t work out but then again i knew it was a long shot.
Just so you guys know what to expect, i still want to finish up the remaining SF4 character TACVs and i may write a few random articles down the line. But i have no idea what that timeline is going to look like.
Regarding ComboVid, i made an announcement there explaining the situation. I might continue updating it casually and i’m still waiting on a few interview responses, but i’m not going to adhere to a strict daily schedule anymore.
Lastly if anyone’s considering buying the Combo DVD, please wait until a release date is announced. At this point i have absolutely no idea when it’s going be to ready. If i could go back in time, i would’ve held off on accepting preorders until much later.
Just for trying, you’re braver than most.
As far as I’m concerned, the combo DVD will be ready when it’s ready.
This will be my first and last comment here because I registered solely for this post. You, Maj, selectively single out Event Hubs among all of the sites that link to your videos for whatever personal bias you have and actually have the nerve to act like you’re a victim. You act as if it’s an irredeemable crime to provide a link to a Youtube video and try to paint EH as a thieving, leeching website. Catalyst has been nothing but a class act through all of this drama, reaching out and trying to settle matters, while you sulk and make no attempt at all to even reach a conclusion. The whole time you’ve been peddling that EH has no “original content”. Exactly what the hell do you think a news website is? Or any news outlet in any media for that matter. Unless someone reasonable can come along and convince me otherwise I’m done with this site, and I’m not supporting someone like you for any matter, because you’ve shown me exactly who you are.
Thieves, opportunists, or profiteers come out clean because stupid people can’t see the dust they’re coated in.
Thanks for everything, Maj. Would love to play you in something not online some day. I get that SRK’s current policy is that of user contributed content. So every time I think of pointing something out, I realize that the onus is on myself to produce what it is I don’t see. Being a mass consumer and not seeing it is pretty tough to realize. School’s a calling but I’ll have semester break sooner or later.
@Existent
shut the fuck up. just cause catalyst works hard doesn’t mean he’s given anything of value to our community. EH is full of CRAP content, and the quality content it does have is all copy pasta from other sites. get real. Maj doesn’t need ‘the support’ of EH, EH is plague on our scene.
thanks again maj for all you’ve done. I’m glad to hear DVDs will be out later than sooner so i can hopefully have cash for one when they drop.
@Maj
Cant wait for that combo DVD.
Thanks for saying what needed to be said about EH, I’m sure you arent the first but you are (in my opinion) the most prominent member of the community to bring it up. I hope I can see you at a tournament one day.
Take it easy man. Can’t believe you kept it up as long as you did. Seeing an amazing vid every now and then in stead of every day, week or even month is something I’m sure most people don’t have any problems with.
Maj, you’re one of a kind, you’ve contributed more to the scene through the years than anyone has a right to expect. Your old rate of content production was still higher than essentially anyone else. You’ve got a lot of fans, never forget it.
Existent: If you think coming in here to make one post talking shit and then running off is classy, then yeah, Catalyst is real classy. When you defend eventhubs as a news site, you do realize that traditional news services have to obtain permission to show music clips, sports highlights, etc. and/or pay royalties, right? How often do you see CNN embedding uncut Pearl Jam concert videos on their website?
Your main complaint seems to be that i’m singling out eventhubs. First of all, i didn’t mention eventhubs by name this time, so we can thank you for that. Second, no other news site matches eventhubs in terms of sheer traffic. They get somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 million hits per month, while iPW is in the 300k range, and even the official Capcom-Unity site is at the 1.5 million range. SRK is the only website that compares to eventhubs’ traffic.
Let’s review. Capcom makes the game we play. SRK runs the best fighting game tournaments in the world and played a major role in keeping this community together for five years before SF4 showed up and pressed the “Easy” button.
And eventhubs … does what? “Creates” basic strategy guides that were all over SRK from day one? Lists damage for elementary combos? Adds colors to copy/pasted frame data tables? Gives you tons of reasons to be ignorant of where all the original content comes from?
Personally i’ve reached the conclusion that eventhubs is a huge part of the problem preventing content producers from making money. Now you may disagree with me and that’s fine, but it’s an undeniable fact that eventhubs makes at least five times more money off my material than i ever do. If they linked out to Sonic Hurricane instead of embedding my videos, i might at least have a chance. But as we’ve all seen, eventhubs goes out of its way to post “Credit to Sonichurricane.com” as plain text instead of a clickable link.
Hell, if we’re being precise, even that wouldn’t balance the scales. Because instead of checking Sonic Hurricane three times to see if my next video is out yet, everyone just visits eventhubs. Basically, the existence of eventhubs in our community ecosystem takes something tangible away from all dedicated content producers, and eventhubs profits directly from this situation.
For the record, eventhubs was also the first and only major site to install popup ads. So of course everyone installed adblockers, which means a huge percentage of the people who visit my website don’t even see the ads anymore. Yet another example of the shit eventhubs does to make money that nobody else was willing to resort to.
Yeah those guys work hard, but they sure as hell don’t work harder than i do. If it takes them half an hour to embed a combo video or post an interview excerpt, they’re getting a massive discount on content creation time/cost.
What do we get in exchange? We have eventhubs becoming successful off everyone else’s work, we have content producers getting fed up and quitting, and we have no hope of eventhubs ever filling that void because they never had the capability to create that content in the first place. That’s where this is headed dude.
You probably don’t even notice the names of the authors who make combo videos for you to watch on eventhubs, but let me tell you – a lot of the best ones aren’t around anymore. In fact the main reason i started making SF4 combovids is because all the people i used to look up to disappeared. I’d trade eventhubs for any one of them in an instant.
And yeah, i do have a lot of respect for SRK. This community has a horrendous record of keeping track of its own history, but it’s a fact that Evo would not exist today if it wasn’t for the Cannon brothers. That isn’t to say they deserve all the credit, but it definitely wouldn’t have been possible without them.
Like i said before, they lost money every year from 1996 to at least 2006, before any tournament had sponsors and back when it cost hundreds of dollars a month to run a forum that size. There was literally zero hope of making a penny in that environment and they still did it to support the fighting game community.
So yeah, i do cut SRK a lot of slack – for obvious fucking reasons.
Maj, I wish there was a way to work through this but I understand you being burnt out regardless of this newly aired frustration. Thank you for all you have done and I look forward to even a yearly article, should you decide. Taking a break is a must sometimes, you don’t owe the community squat.
What is your plan for past content? Please oh please do not remove it from the net. Everything you have done both video and otherwise has been treasure.
Woo. Existent 0 – Maj 1337.
But seriously, even without this post, your points were, imo, pretty clear and fair. Even more so, they were udnerstandable. Sad it has to come to this, but there’s no denying that you gotta look out for yourself. You feel you need a break, so take one, and a well deserved one it is. We can only thank you for all your work and what you gave all of us for no other reason than love for the community.
Wish you the very best and hope we get to see from you again in the future. :)
This post made me seriously cry man. The moment I watched this freaking video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lBYMq8BNS0
That seriously changed the way I thought about Street Fighter, in general. Not just Street Fighter but, you as well. I will admit before that video, I did not really know you were. After watching that video, I had to find out more. My first truly ever Street Fighter was SF4, before then Street Fighter was just a casual game.
After that video, I got way more into the community. I’ve read many articles on you. I subcribed to your u2b paged, bookmarked SonicHurricane. I’ve watched all of your videos ever since then. I was seriously looking for the DvD, and I still am. Just really wish there was more I can contribute.
I really blame Machinima for all this, if they hadn’t been in the picture… more gamings channels, like yours, would’ve been able to get partnership and make money from their content. It’s just sad how Youtube treats them.
… But who would do different? Why make multiple partner gaming channels when Machinima is racking in all the views anyway?. It’s pathetic. You either submit your videos to them or go make real life videos to be able to get partnership and pray to god people watch them.
“I registered solely for this post.” Maj, I have been watching your videos since you started. The labor you put into your work is noticed and appreciated. It sucks you’re not able to continue but know that there will never be anyone that can match your effort and creativity. It sucks sites like eventhubs are leeching off your work and it’s true, they really don’t have any original content compared to the massive amount of ORIGINAL media and articles you create. Just know that there are people that will truly miss your involvement in the community like myself.
Thank you for everything you’ve done.
Really sick of the “what do you think a news site is?” crap – if you want to see what a news website is, take a look at other sites that show game content. Observe the differences between them and EH. You know what? Don’t bother – just read the comments from the post under this one, unless that’s too damn hard and you’d rather wait for someone else to summarize it.
Negativity aside, I do encourage everyone to take a look at “sh/classic”, linked in the sidebar. Before the fancy WordPress format, Maj wrote some fascinating (though not as universally appealing) articles on both the CvS and SFII series, and produced some great videos, with incredibly detailed explanations. Even if you disagree with his stance on the current situation, he is a “combo maker,” and both the Guile and Ryu “SF?” videos can be considered triumphs in game exploration. Sonic Hurricane was my starting point for watching (and eventually maybe creating) combo videos, which may have been a mistake, as he set the bar too damn high. Not many people can create awesome content AND have the skills to write about it so well. The reason why I, along with many other readers have come to his defense is because, in some senses, he is an inspiration.
Not only are the above videos/articles mentioned important, well-done, and unique, but he also, in only the first two weeks after its release, explored and made combo videos of SSFIV that still remain unmatched. If you try to point any of this out to the man himself, he will downplay his achievements without relent.
I don’t expect any of the things I wrote to change whether or not Maj can make a living at this hobby. I’m just paying respect and highlighting a few things some other readers/viewers may have never noticed. Also, Maj, you shouldn’t even bother with the drama. I know it’s tempting, but feeding the trolls/ignoramuses isn’t going to help. We eagerly anticipate your next video, but please do something less frustrating for now.
Thank you all for your support and the overwhelmingly kind words.
Yeah … I don’t know what else to say. I really appreciate it.
apex: Don’t worry about that sir, i’m not planning on taking this website down. The old stuff will be here permanently. And i’m sure i’ll eventually get the urge to write random stuff again – probably … after i have some time to recover. Ah we’ll see.
Damn… I didn’t want to read through all the comments on the last topic but it kinda seemed like one or two people just made accounts just to mess with you Maj. I think its fairly obvious where they’re from. I can’t tell for sure, but it looks like Existent may be Nyoronoru or hadokenburst… or both. It’s the internet so anything could be true. Changing writing style isn’t exactly hard. Who’s to say I’m not the one in control of these alias’s. Of course if the above turns out to be true, it just shows what kind of place EH really is right?
I don’t even remember how I found this site but it’s kept me entertained for a few years now. If stop and do continue to make videos or articles at a later time, hope you post it here if you plan on keeping it up.
Hands up who would donate if Maj put a paypal donation box on his site.
*Hand goes up*
Maybe you have heard of Ken bogard. He is a french commentator of fighting games matchs who does a lot for the community there.
Lately his forum’s members donated him so he could fly to japan and give his impressions of the arcade scene there, meet japanese top players and report on the Tougeki 2K10. (have a look on his website at http://kenbogard.fr/)
Just an example which can be inspiring.
*hand goes up as well*
As a complete SF4 scrub, I’d like to thank you for not just elevating my game above being crap, but actually showing me that Street Fighter can be so much more. Only you and a select few others can do it for me.
This is such a shame, I love combovid.com. Is there no way you could convince others to share the huge workload with you?
I posted little but respected a lot. I look forward to your combo video to support someone who was working from grass roots. I did that long ago too (saikyo.com, 1998 – 2003 RIP) and know how you feel. Can’t win them all, but I do hope to see you spring to life again someday.
Well, first off, i have to say thank you for all the work and time you’ve put into the community. Your content is the legendary in the community, i believe that goes without saying. Your combo vids, the footsie articles, screenshots, challenges, etc.
I really hope that you do find something to take your mind off of this for a while, something a whole lot less stressful. It’s just sad it had to come to this.
Also, i would like to at least try to help validate one statement you made in this article that i couldn’t help relate to.
“A lot of people are saying that i shouldn’t expect to make money because this is a hobby and it’s just video games. Well, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s exhausting. The fucked up sleep “schedule” i’ve been keeping since starting weekly updates is physically draining.”
Like i mentioned, i can’t help but relate to this, and i COMPLETELY agree with your statement above. I post online ranked matches from the top SSF4 players in Asia [mostly Japan]. I post them DAILY on YouTube, usually around 10 – 15 matches per day. I have given up almost all of my actual time playing the game myself!! i don’t make a penny from this. Even though this deals with a video game, it is extremely tiring.
Well, like i said Maj, thank you for everything you’ve done for the community. I do hope you find something that makes you happy.
Yeah, i don’t really want to go down the donations route. I certainly appreciate the sentiment, but that’s one murky area i’d rather avoid.
Please understand that this wasn’t a publicity stunt or a last-ditch cry for help. Seriously, i gave it my best shot and it just didn’t work out. That’s all there is to it, and i’m okay with that.
Nobody else in the fighting game community had ever tried anything like this before, so i figured it was worth an honest shot. With all the SF4 hype, i felt like if it ever had a chance of succeeding, now would be the time.
I’m not dumb or naive either. I can’t say i actually expected to succeed because i’m perfectly aware of “how the internet works” but at the same time i didn’t want to be just another pessimistic naysayer. And obviously i care about all this, so i had to at least try.
But it is what it is. Like i’ve said several times before: There’s no sense forcing it. In order for this whole thing to succeed, it would require a lot of public support. But it’s no surprise that “the masses” flow down the path of least resistance and flock to news hubs instead of coming here. Nothing i can do about that, even if i happen to believe that valuing quantity/convenience over quality is ultimately going to hurt the community in the long-run.
Anyway i’m not here trying to tug on everyone’s heartstrings to get people to feel sorry for me. I just felt like i owed you guys an explanation so i wrote one as openly as i could. Haha it took me two tries, but i think i’ve covered just about everything there was to say.
It’s unfortunate that a few people took it as a personal attack, but hey i was just trying to point out the source of the problem based on my own experiences and observations. Would it have been better to avoid the issue altogether and come off sounding vague as fuck? I don’t think so. Or at least that’s not my style.
So i’m sorry if i ruffled a few feathers but that was kind of inevitable. The “good” thing about producing content on a regular schedule for such a long time is that people notice when you stop.
You say you want to make this sustainable but you won’t take donations. I don’t understand. Donations are a perfectly legitimate source of funds because they’re completely voluntary. Plenty of community sites have been supported by donations – SRK included. I would totally be willing to donate $20 to help sustain Sonic Hurricane instead of seeing it become a graveyard.
I’ll admit that I use a popup blocker. I specifically turned it off for your site though because you asked before.
I bet we could get you on the partner program for Youtube if enough people asked. I just don’t know specifically who to pester with emails.
I’m really appreciative of all the content you’ve produced for the community Maj. I just don’t want to see you go :(
Honestly i don’t think donations are sustainable. For me the main thing is, i don’t want to be the only sustainable Street Fighter website. But if nothing works except donations then as far as i’m concerned nothing works period.
Let’s face it, the fighting game community isn’t exactly rich. Maybe it would be a different story if Sonic Hurricane was a yacht racing website. But for better or worse, i write about Sonic Booms and Doukens.
And i’ve said it before – i feel like SRK is more important to our community than my site. Right now it’s not a conflict because Sonic Hurricane exists in a different space than SRK. But if we start talking donations, then we all coverge into one line. Then i’m essentially competing against SRK and every other community website for your money, and it’s like, how much money does the community have to give?
As for u2b, their partnership guidelines are vague as all hell. I know the direct route to u2b partnership is talking into a camera, but obviously i’m not down with that. I have no idea what their specific criteria are, in terms of subscription numbers and such, but sending emails won’t help. It’s literally impossible to reach anyone human at u2b and none of their rejection letters ever make sense – almost like the people reviewing the partnership applications don’t play video games and can’t even tell the difference between an edited video and a continuous match.
Anyway please don’t get the wrong idea. I’m not bitterly trying to make everyone feel guilty. The only people i’ve argued with are the eventhubs supporters who clearly have no clue how our community functions.
Otherwise i’m not blaming anyone. It’s clear that in this environment, the only websites with a chance of making any money whatsoever are the ones that literally harvest the entire community’s content and stockpile it into one place. What can you do? It is what it is.
I think it makes sense, not wanting to rely on donations. They can help support sites, of course, but they’re not really a basis for a business model. Anyway, the DVD has been there for months if people wanted to give Maj money. $20 is probably higher than the median donation for this sort of thing, but it’s not crazy.
I’m sorry that it didn’t work out, though, Maj. Best of luck in the future. It’s a real shame that the community thought highly enough of you to give you a gold stick, but you still couldn’t find a way to make anywhere close to a reasonable amount of money for your work. That sort of disconnect is a tragedy. I hope it changes someday.
Oh, look, Maj beat me to it and said it better. And on his own site! Some gall.
maj, even if you never make another video or write another article you’re still the king. the legacy is cemented. take a well deserved break imo. personally i don’t mind waiting some more for the dvd.
@Maj
ideally you’d be an editor/content producer for SRK.. but i guess it’s too late now :(
well.. i hope you’re not burned out completely and maybe you’ll return to better spirits in the future.
respect!
You gotta understand that many newbies came into community when SF4 appeared. They don’t know history of Shoryuken. They saw EventHubs and enjoyed its content, so EventHubs didn’t really harm community. If EventHubs made your site “clickable” would it then be ok to promote your work? Also, how do you know that they get 2-3 million views per month? Oh you forgot to add that GGPO needs 300$ per month to stay online. I have to appreciate them for that!
Also gotta say, I wonder if KYSG feels the same way as you do now :D
I’m really sad to read this. Sorry that things couldn’t work out. I don’t know if there was any way to win the battle you fought, but I give you credit for sticking it out as long as you did.
Thanks for the amazing videos. Your Ryu exhibition remains one of the finest works of any kind I’ve ever seen on the internet, and from now on whenever I see a combo video I’ll be comparing it to your work.
Best of luck with everything. I hope you find a way to remain part of the fighting game community, it’d be too sad to lose your influence altogether.
I think this whole problem is similar to that of piracy.
Eventhubs pirated content from other sites and package them in one central site which is both easy and free to use. Kind of like what torrent trackers are doing. Just like piracy content creators are getting a lot of publicity and certainly seeing some small gain in profit but you know they are going complain of some perceived loss in profit based on the number of illegal downloads or in this case page hits.
What Maj is asking for people to do is buy original products or at least support torrent trackers that give back to the community. However, just like the ongoing issue with piracy, there will always be people who’ll continue to not care or not want or simply can’t. Frankly, it doesn’t help that EventHubs is just a better torrent tracker compared to Shoryuken.com.
Like piracy also, going after the pirates isn’t going to work either because there will always be demand for a site like EventHubs. So like many people who’ve been fighting piracy for an extended period of time, Maj gives up trying.
But you know what, there is thing called iTunes that offered the same convenience but charges a small price. Everyone saw that they could help out content creators and without a big change to their habits or lifestyle. Suddenly, it became the biggest online music store in the world and it’s totally legit.
You may argue that the iTunes store concept isn’t perfect but now that the genie has been out of the bottle, it’s time to move on. Just like how the music industry has moved on(mostly) from attacking the pirates to offering the people what they want, the fighting community should move on from blaming Eventhubs and find new ways to encourage their content creators.
Wow dude, could you be any further in denial? Look i don’t give a damn how much music you’ve stolen or what elaborate excuses you’ve constructed to keep yourself from acknowledging guilt. You’re not going to wish this away with half-baked analogies.
The difference is we’re a small community compared to the music industry, and much smaller when you count the number of people contributing actual “stuff” to the community. And in most cases, we can see exactly who’s screwing us over.
Although you’re right about one thing, the only ones who deserve more blame than eventhubs are the apologists who are okay with it.
It’s pretty simple. You’ve got a handful of people contributing actual, tangible, original things to the community – videos, articles, tournaments, etc. And you’ve got one guy who came out of nowhere and is now making a living out of collecting all that content in one place, and occasionally rewriting a few sentences in passing. (Not to mention, he’s done every shady “accidental” thing you can name along the way.)
It used to be that everyone tried to reach their goals with their own ideas, talents, and capabilities. We had kind of an honor system where it was understood that you don’t put your name on someone else’s ideas or try to make money off someone else’s work.
That’s the rule eventhubs broke (and smashed to pieces) to get ahead. Now instead of everyone making a few bucks here and there, you’ve got one guy making a living while everyone else fights over pennies. This inevitable backlash is nothing more than “what goes around comes around.”
I honestly can’t think of anything worse for this community than one guy whom nobody knows surviving off a news site that’s based on aggregating content. Of course he’s going to bend/break every rule and cut every corner possible to make it work. You couldn’t make up a more complete recipe for disaster if you tried.
But hey, if you want to blame me for not being a multinational $50 billion corporation capable of coming up with “the itunes store concept” then go right ahead. Let’s not even mention the dozens of itunes prototypes that crashed and burned before someone had the resouces to make it stick.
Btw that “perceived loss” sentence might be the most uninformed/offensive thing i’ve read all month. It was so bad, it made my head hurt.
But that’s what the internet is all about, right? Steal the content, blame the source, feel no guilt. Whee!
Make no mistake dude: This isn’t about me, it’s about you. If you support content producers, they’ll continue making the same content for you. Or you can choose to support eventhubs, and you’ll be stuck hoping for some other sucker to fill the void whenever a genuine author gets fed up and leaves. Again, it’s pretty simple.
It’s disappointing things have gone this way… If I were to be honest I may come off as a hypocrite, or ambiguous at least. But I’ll take a shot of explaining how I see things.
If anything I say below is wrong Maj (when I’m talking about you anyway) then please correct me, I am trying to gauge your view as best I can.
– I make the videos I make for multiple reasons. Part of me wants to see me make it (mild vanity) many of my videos I feel I am providing something that benefits the community they represent (my DMD SS guides, some concept videos, my NG Karma Run to name a few.) Some are simply to challenge myself. Ultimately they boil down to me making them for myself & for the community viewing them. I would guess Maj has his own reasons for it, & his own Ratio of importance.
– As for the argument of “News site will generate more views, so why would you complain as a contents creator” This is where I remain ambiguous, as I like the fact that if EH took my shit I would have more views. But my view is not the important thing here. If I am fine with Eventhubs or whoever taking my stuff & increasing its notoriety that doesn’t make the practice any more right or wrong. & you don’t have to look through much of EH to realise it is not a website that thrives off its own originality, it feeds off of the community; & if all you care about is views then you’ll probably not care about how EH goes about its business. But if that is all you care about, and then perhaps you can still acknowledge the fact that many people would see this activity as a source of destruction to a community.
Catalyst said in his interview something along the lines of “IF all I posted on my website were Maj’s releases, then I wouldn’t have much of a website” which is true, but if all he were to show was his original content… he still wouldn’t have much of a website.
The reason I am ambiguous on this subject, is because no matter how you cut it you’ll always have a split view here. Normal “viewers” are happy that they don’t have to trawl though 8 different sites to keep up to date on whatever they’re in to. “Content creators” who just want to show their shit are happy there is a well known site that’s willing to host their this. Meanwhile people who want to see a community flourish will notice the potential damage it may cause.
This is hard for me because of allot of things involved… EH releases information easier, this potentially increases fan base, an increased fan base offers a greater likelihood of people creating shit for the community, thus increasing the likelihood that the community will flourish. (This also benefits EH) However the more this process happens the less likely it becomes for people creating content for the community to see any kind of gain from their work. But then that once again boils down to.
Q1: – “Do you care if a website is profiting off of other peoples hard work?”
The truth is, I believe there is nothing wrong with people just wanting to make videos & wanting people to see them, through whatever means, even if that means helping a website gain a monopoly on a particular genre of gaming.
If you’re fine with Q1 then:
Q2: – “Do you care if the company in questions offers no return to the community it utilises?”
This is where the ethics comes in… I agree with maj that if they offer nothing back, then why should a community support a website that is doing nothing more than leeching off of it.
– I don’t believe Maj is stating all this as a source for his own vanity or arrogance. If EH never used his content I don’t think his opinion on their practices would be any different. In the short time I’ve known Maj it’s clear he is incredibly humble, I’m not trying to suck his cock here, this is a personal observation.
– Maj has been around a lot longer than most, I’ve been making vids for a good while now, but in no set community, I’ve done shit for platformers, RTS’s, fighters, hell even a few RPG’s. So i’m somewhat of a drifter in a lot of communities. That said Maj has experience on his side in THIS community, he knows how things were in the past, he knows the history of a lot of sites, he certainly has the experience to make opinions on which of the larger sites are at least helping the community as they use it. IT is understandable to me that he has an attachment here. When someone attempts to exploit this, it seems justifiable, hell, even commendable that he’d want to defend against it.
– I may be speaking for Maj here… But I don’t think he’s questioning the amount of “Work” Catalyst has put in to his site. I’m almost positive he’s questioning the ethics behind it. I mean Hitler may have worked his ass off, but it doesn’t make his cause anymore justifiable. (This is an easy example… I’m not comparing Catalyst to Hitler) IF I were to fathom I guess i’d say Catalysts has probably worked bloody hard on the whole to get his site to the stage point it has achieved today.
Here are the things that elude me here, in my own perspective & to what can be considered “disagreements” to Maj’s article.
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1) If Catalyst was making minimal profit from this, then is it ok that he doesn’t give back to the community?
This’ll never be proven though, even if Catalyst did show the profit/losses he has made throughout the years then we get in to the argument of whether he’s telling the truth or not. & we fall back in to people simply choosing sides.
2) If Maj achieved his goal of making min-wage for his efforts, would he still feel this way about Event hubs? If so, would he still feel the need to voice this to the community?
I just can’t answer this, I have an opinion right now, but it’s only based on what I know about maj & is all pretty much speculation.
3) Does EH actually harm the community
To me the big one… EH inevitably makes things easier for newer people, which can potentially increase the fan base. Now we can say SRK did this, we can justify SRK by saying they contributed back to the community. But this just brings us back to the ethical question. Can a company working unethically still benefit everyone? To which I can’t formulate an answer i’m happy with.
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& that’s that, having a quick read back… I have no idea if people are going to be able to make sense of it, but I gave it a shot.
Holly hell that’s longer than i expected.
Dude, eventhubs thrives by providing convenient access to high-quality SF4 content. That’s all that website does. Basically if you make a good SF4 combo video, it’s guaranteed to show up on eventhubs. They have no choice but to post it to keep their hungry audience happy.
As a content producer, you’re helping eventhubs more than eventhubs is helping you. It’s not a balanced relationship. You don’t have to thank eventhubs for getting your video more views. In fact you pretty much have no say in the matter. (Why do you think i went so far out of my way to give you guys so many opportunities to opt out of ComboVid?)
Don’t forget, eventhubs didn’t create this interest in SF4. Capcom did that with fancy graphics and expensive marketing budgets, and SRK helped by providing an existing viral framework. There’s also all the people running hype tournaments and sacrificing tons of time/money to host live streams. And there’s all the mainstream media attention that we’ve been getting from G4 and 1UP and so on.
Relatively speaking, eventhubs is a small piece of the puzzle. Trust me, the world wouldn’t end without it. If eventhubs didn’t exist, all those people would look for combovids and strategies in other places, such as forums and personal blogs. Every active gaming forum has massive SF4 threads.
See, all these people visit eventhubs to watch combo videos because they know they’ll see all the best ones on there. Now how did eventhubs get that reputation without ever producing a single combo video? Oh that’s right, they did it using my combovids – and yours – and everyone else’s we know.
Though i agree with you to an extent.
“As a content producer, you’re helping eventhubs more than eventhubs is helping you. ”
This is dependant on what the person making the video is after? After all, your reasons for making a video may be different to others… If all someone wants is for people to see the video, then EH is benefitting them by simply hosting it in a location that it will be viewed by the masses. Sure they might be benefitting EH, but if they don’t care… Then what loss does the vid maker make?
As i said before i’m not saying this justifies what EH does… But it doesn’t change the fact that, it can give a basis to understand why some people might feel EH is a benefit to video makers by simply being a site that caters to generating views to whatever is posted up. (If you get what i’m saying)
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This is generally the reason why i am in two minds to choosing sides.
Why don’t you try making a video of an unpopular game and then see how much they help you? Maybe if you’re lucky, they’ll get your name right.
Look, i’m really tired of debating this issue. If you still want to defend them, go right ahead.
I apologize for the “perceived loss” sentence being offensive. I assure you that that was never my intention. What I meant to say was the loss is an “estimation” because there is no way to know for sure if all 10k users that viewed your video on EventHubs would have viewed it on your site instead if EventHubs didn’t exist or even how many just pressed play because it was conveniently in front of them. That’s just my opinion when you brought up the numbers.
I even agree with you that EventHubs have stolen articles of other sites, that they gain off other people’s hard work and that their continued existence is a roadblock to other content creators.
What I don’t agree with is the direction you chose to take which is to guilt and threaten the public into supporting content creators. The reason I illustrated a parallel between this issue and the piracy issue is not for an analogy but to show a precedent.
Governments, large corporations and even small time artists have employed the exact same tactic you did to get people to support the original artist. They called piracy as something that would kill off the industry eventually just like you did when you say news sites will kill off all content eventually. The lesson learned there is that the majority of the internet really doesn’t care. By the time they realized that, it was too late. Once it has become rampant and habitual, there is no stopping it. I would hate the see the same thing happen to the fighting game community.
This is why I also brought up iTunes. It wasn’t the first online music store but it was the first to really embrace the internet for all it’s good and bad. It didn’t criminalize the public but treated them as customers that were never catered for elsewhere. It realized that the public only wanted a simple and convenient online music store. While the rest of the industry continued to blame the public, iTunes flourished. You don’t need to be a billion dollar MNC to know that there is a lesson there too. As unethical as EventHubs are, it is not as simple to criminalize it and expect people to high tail out of there. You have to really understand people’s motivations first.
Did online piracy died after iTunes came up though? Nope, cause there will always be people who don’t care about the content creators and there will always be people who take advantage of that. It may be EventHubs today but as fighting games grows more mainstream, you can be sure that there will more popping up everywhere. The fighting game community may survive without news sites but the demand for them will keep them coming back regardless of ethics. Just ask the entertainment industry about Napster, LimeWire and PirateBay.
So, you are right when you said this isn’t about you but it is about the fighting game community as a whole. Does it want to be like you and resist the inevitable change coming from the influx of new interest, or does it want to grab the reins and guide it towards a much better future for this generation and many more to come? You can’t win the whole internet, but there certainly can be victories if we try.
As for me, I’m unsubscribing from EventHubs and will only be going to SRK from now on. As for this topic, unless something new comes up, I have said all I have to say. Sorry if I have again offended you or anyone else. It sincerely isn’t my intention. You really do make awesome combo videos and good luck with your future endeavours.
I think i’ve made it clear enough that i’m not siding with anyone here, through any kind of debate i try to remain unbias… After all most people in my situation would simply outright side with you simply because i know you on a more personal level than i do Catalyst (Not saying i know you deeply or anything, just saying i’ve at least worked with you directly & admire you. Catalyst is a name to me.)
But what he said above:
“You have to really understand people’s motivations first.”
This is what i feel you’re not getting… Because i can tell you now that 80/90% of the people moaning about EH here are likely still using it. & it is very tenuous as to whether EH “harms” the community. Without hindsight on my side i don’t feel there is enough information to say they are doing damage, & without knowing how much profit they make, i can’t say i agree with you expecting them to give something back.
I don’t agree with their practices… But the majority of people who go there arn’t even gonna give anything like that a second thought. It’s like trying to clear a volcano with a fire extinguisher.
^^As the above bloke said piracy may be unjustified, but people simply don’t give a fuck. Convenience often prevails^^
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As for the argument of whether EH is taking Content makers money… Well i would say most content makers don’t care about money. &i’dimagine most wouldn’t care if they made X amount of pounds for providing a stage for peoples efforts.
I’m not saying it’s right, it’s a shit state of affairs, but it’s reality; there’s no Reversal DP’ing out of this one.
Let me get this straight: You guys are saying that i don’t understand that eventhubs is popular because it’s convenient? Seriously, give me a break. Haven’t i said that exact thing five times already?
And if you’re still blaming me for bringing this up, then you haven’t been paying attention to the staggering number of people who were completely blindsided by this announcement and had no idea what was going on.
It needed to be said. Period. Should i have phrased it slightly differently?
I don’t care. Get over it.
I’m so tired of people trying to fix this by convincing themselves that the problem doesn’t exist. Or that i’m somehow wrong for pointing out a massive discrepancy in who produces content versus who profits.
I’m sorry if thinking about this stuff is inconvenient. Feel free to stop coming up with obvious reasons why i shouldn’t have bothered in the first place. I assure you, they’re not helping.
And while i’m flattered that you guys think i should be the one to devote my entire life to revolutionizing the way content is distributed in the fighting game community, i’m not interested in doing that. Nor do i think it’s financially feasible to profit from our “resourceful” community via the itunes model.
Expecting me to be able to solve this problem is ridiculously unreasonable. It’s just not happening. Nor do i appreciate the fact that eventhubs has turned our little world so upside-down that we’re actually talking about fucking itunes as a potential solution.
My standpoint is things were better before eventhubs. But at this point, i would settle for well-intentioned people to stop coming here to tacitly defend eventhubs in the interest of “unbiasedness” or whatever. You don’t see me defending myself in any of the discussions on other forums/websites, do you?
And as for condemning me for caring about losing money (“most content makers don’t care about money”) – well, i don’t know what to say to that. Once i go back to making 2 short videos a year along with 3-4 articles tops, i’ll go back to not caring about money either.
Why would you try to make a living off of combo videos? I mean… that doesn’t sound like something anyone can support themselves on. I thought one would do combo videos as general gifts to the community whilst working in a real job, not trying to make a living off of it.
And regarding Eventhubs:
http://iplaywinner.com/news/2010/11/13/iplaywinner-podcast-episode-12-catalyst_nc-from-eventhubscom.html
Listen to his side of the situation before badmouthing someone so bad.
The way I see it, you chose to make a career out of a very specific aspect of a hobby, and are suffering for it. This is the real world. Sometimes, people can’t do what they love and get paid for it. Way I see it, you should either try an work for Capcom, a strategy guide, or something. Don’t try and make cash off of this.
I don’t really know why i’m bothering to respond to you because it’s obvious you don’t give a fuck, but for the record, i never tried to make a living off this. I only tried to make it sustainable on the side and unintentionally ended up putting in full-time hours in the process.
The bottom line is, i ended up making no money at all, so the last year of my life has been “a gift” to the community. I might actually feel good about it, if it wasn’t for people like you defending eventhubs for making money off my contribution.
The real question is, why aren’t you saying this same shit to catalyst? He’s the one making money, right?
And … How was i supposed to listen to a podcast conducted in response to my post before i made my post? You’re grasping at straws buddy. Anyway if you’re actually satisfied by the answers provided in that podcast then you’re pretty much a lost cause as far as i’m concerned.
I couldn’t believe it when pherai essentially said “yeah running tournaments is hard so i don’t blame you for not running them.” The whole thing felt like one giant uncomfortable moment that pherai was doing his best to get out of. He ended up making more apologies for eventhubs than catalyst himself did.
I wasted 35 minutes listening to catalyst’s PR bullshit and learned almost nothing that i didn’t already know. It was like listening to a politician trying to weasel his way out of a tough situation, and pherai was way too polite/sympathetic to ask any real difficult follow-up questions.
As for your suggestion to not try and make cash off this, i’m already two steps ahead of you. I quit eleven days ago, remember?
Don’t get me wrong, your work is BEAUTIFUL. Those combo vids and that footsie handbook were just outstanding. But you shouldn’t be trying to make a living off of it. I’m sure everyone here would rather you put out content 3 or 4 times a year like before than be out for good. Try and get some other form of job for the stability and work on the vids and stuff on the side, but don’t try and make a living off of it.
Fighting games in and of themselves are just that, games. A lot of people don’t see them that way, but the fact remains that most of the rest of the world does. As such, you wont get as much money making a combo vid DVD as you would a DVD on great sports plays or something. Its stupid, considering the fact that sports and videogames are more or less the same general concept, only one gets paid more than another for more or less the same amount of devotion and skill, but its how this world works.
So, try and get a job to keep you afloat, and work on the Combo vids and articles at your leisure. Or, don’t work on the vids and stuff at all. But get some form of job and such to keep you afloat. It’s pretty much all anyone can do.
God, I wish there was an edit button. That last post was made before I read your own btw.
I do have a job. But instead of trying to get ahead in my career or my personal life, i’ve been spending every last minute of available time obsessing over the next combo video or the next article or the next website design detail and scribbling down notes and combo ideas and sentence fragments to create something worthwhile here for you.
It’s pretty hard to get anywhere in life when you’re more focused on finding a good example of some footsies element for a strategy article deadline than how you’re going to meet a work deadline.
xD Indeed. I can tell its been rough as all hell. Well man, just prioritize, Work and Fam first, and SF second. With good organization and time, everything should be okay. Well, save the whole EH thing.
I made a huge reply to one of your posts… but it’s clear it’s not worth posting it as i don’t think you want to hear it. IF you want it up i’ll gladly do it, but i’ll just give my final opinion on this.
Keep in mind i’ve searched every way in me to justify your points because i know you on a closer level than i know Catalyst. But all it seems to me is:
“You’re using Eventhubs as an outlet for choices you made in life it’s not there fault you chose to attempt this.”
But like i said if you want me to explain how i came to that conclusing then let me know & i’ll give you the essay.
You’re right, i don’t want to hear it. Ultimately i don’t really care how people satsify their need for closure in this situation. If reaching that conclusion helped you get over this dilemma, then i’m happy for you.
Cheers