SF4 Seth Combo Development

Since i have almost no experience using Seth, and since quite a few people consider him their favorite combo character, i thought we’d try something different this time.

Instead of hunting down every existing SF4 Seth combovid myself, i’ll just let you guys tell me what you want me to try in his episode. As long as the idea sounds somewhat reasonable, i’ll give it a go. To keep this crazy exercise on track, please do me a favor and make sure your suggestions are based on concrete knowledge – either verified directly or seen in a video.

This process might work smoothly or it might not; it may save time or may waste time instead; it could be fun or it could suck – but it’s unexplored territory so it’s worth a shot.

72 thoughts on “SF4 Seth Combo Development

  1. Maj Post author

    Fair warning: With Evo around the corner, i may not be able to respond to everything the same day it’s posted, but i’ll try to stay active on a regular basis. Just don’t worry if i disappear for a day or two, here and there.

    With that out of the way, i’m looking forward to seeing where this goes.

  2. Snoooootch

    I wonder if you can set up a large amount of head stomps by whiffing the dive hk and doing ex tandem engine. Not sure if there is a juggle property needed to suck an opponent back in. AND Rog may be the crappy hit box to help you whiff the hk dive kick more easily. idk, I’m just interested in how many head stomps you can get in one combo.

  3. error1

    I’d like you to see how many head stomps you can land in a combo, like you did with Chun Lee.
    You can land a CH headstomp, J.hk or J.HP, c.lk
    Also the first hit has a jp of 2 so I think you can do C.HP, headstompx2, wall jump, headstompx3
    It’s really easy to do headstompx3, wall jump beacuse the third one causes a slow spinning decent, but I pretty sure I’ve done stompx2
    You need to hit them into the corner with the c.hp and cross over them with the second headstomp
    might be able to land and do super idk

  4. error1

    @Snoooootch
    lol same idea
    yeah ex tandem has infinite juggle potential, that’s super hard to do but I have seen hsx3 ex tandem.
    not enough frame advantage off a HS,J.HP to link a c.hp tho

  5. onreload

    simply put: add anything after Seth’s super. i don’t know how to interrupt it with JP to spare, and it eats fireballs, even from behind (right?)

  6. P1d40n3

    I know this might be a little general, but could you find some way to combo after Seth’s s.F? The only thing I know combo’s with it is a lp fireball.

  7. Maj Post author

    Alright so “do something with stomps” and “something with super” – got it.

    And if i understand correctly, “do something with far s.HP”?

  8. brocko

    Lighting leg interrupt would be cool to watch. You get so much frame advantage off of it too, when they go into that hit animation.

  9. Maj Post author

    Okay i’ll give it a try. Actually you know what would really help? With any of these requests, if you guys could find the best version of that combo currently out there, it would give me a clear idea of what i have to top.

    So i guess what i’m asking is, show me the best Seth combos you’ve seen up to this point. Because honestly i haven’t paying close attention to him so i don’t know what the score is.

  10. qulix187

    Id like to see how many times you can reset the chun stomps most ive gotten is 2 what i did was :On dhalsim(but im pretty sure it works with other characters he jumps slowest so its easier to time ^^) i j.mp as high as possible without having the second hit connect then when i land i jump delay a little 1 stomp wait until im a little bit futher then stomp #2 then i should be far enough to where i can dive kick without hitting dhalsim then i have very little time to relaunch and go for 3 stomps but they will connect the dive kick will whiff then i use super or if your SSF4 ultra 2 if you’d like i could take a video i main seth and aloooot about him ^.^ ill upload and then post the link here

  11. qulix187

    Also:
    some things i haven’t been able to perform but id like to see if possible are-
    if seth can lp. sonic boom then get to the otherside of the screen fast enough to say to a link combo have the sonic boom hit then do another link combo etc etc

    if seth can do a link combo for ex( c.lk, c.sp, S.Hp) into a sonic boom and then link say a S.lp after the sonic boom into a c.mk into chun kicks that would also be sweet

    there is a glitch in the orginial sf4 where if you have a person to where a sonic boom would stun them, do your ultra (they are still vulnerable during the slide part of the ultra where seth pushes them away) and the sonic boom hits them and stuns them yet the ultra will continue to deal damage and the opponent will still be stunned. the only way i can see this comboing is if you do something similar to what i said before ( sonic boom, reach the corner of the otherside really fast do a combo before the sonicboom reaches etc) except for the fact the seth doesnt build up stun fast enough therefor this is highly unlikely but you never know ^^

    id like to see seths moves that are his own utilized as much as possible to since most of them are worthless (with the exception of ex taden pull)

    you pull that off and ill be breathless nonetheless your videos always leave me with my jaw open so im not worried haha gl maj (ill post some video examples if my text was unclear but the quality wont be the best haha ;)

  12. Maj Post author

    Cool, thanks for taking the time to record all that. I appreciate it sir.

    Seems like Seth has no trouble racking up high hit counts, but the damage on those combos is obviously feeble. Including a damage-based combo probably isn’t worthwhile at all, unless i can get it over 700 somehow – or close enough to make it seem interesting.

    As far as his stump juggles, has anyone seen more than five in a row or is that the hard limit? None of them actually create a free juggle state, right?

  13. error1

    five is the max possible in a row due to the juggle potential
    1st: JP2 – Stun – SKD
    2nd: JP3 – Stun – SKD
    3rd: JP4 – Stun – SKD

    Tenmakujinkyaku: Dive Kick

    JP4 – Stun – Reset

  14. Doopliss

    Well, the only move that keeps free juggle state is the first hit of j.MP, so maybe you could try to make that connect as many times as possible? I’ve managed 3, but then I couldn’t do something after it.

    Seth still has his hyakuretsukyaku trade glitch in SFIV, maybe if you could do more than one in a single combo using something like EX Zanku Hadoken? Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYfZxtOCLk4#t=1m49s

    Maybe you could do a jb.HP mid-combo somehow or simply comboing after an instant one, using a sonic boom or something?

    Maybe you could do a cool combo with a mid-combo wallbounce? example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYfZxtOCLk4#t=0m22s

    Maybe you could do something nice from j.d.MK on a grounded opponent, anyway to do an instant one, land, and do a combo would be awesome. j.d.MK into j.d.HK works if you do it at the peak of the jump vs tall characters (CH MAY be required for you to combo after it, not sure) or a character that has altered their hitbox somehow. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZNPN_6fnyc#t=6m01s

    Maybe you could use his AA EX tanden grounded juggle glitch to your advantage somehow? Like whiffing a jab or something mid-combo.

    Juggling after Super is something I’ve tried to do but failed, maybe you could succeed? I tried full-screen dashing past LP soul spark with Rose, then placing her in the corner and doing a grounded Super on her, but the LP soul spark always got absorbed by the last hit of the super instead of hitting seth out of the recovery.

    As qulix187 said, maybe you could pull off the Stunning SB into Ultra glitch mid-combo somehow? c.HP xx SB xx FADC Ultra works, at least when done AA. Maybe it works grounded on some other character? Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYfZxtOCLk4#t=1m22s

    Maybe you could find some unexpected way to land EX tanden, similar to Desk’s c.HP into Shoryu, EX tanden on T.Hawk, or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZNPN_6fnyc#t=5m40s

    Maybe doing c.HP to SB to EX tanden twice in a combo?

    Do a 2-bar stun combo, then make it a 5-bar combo using EX shoryu -> EX tanden?

    Use focus absorbtion/blocking to alter j.d.MK to your advantage? Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZtSg5FfaxA#t=3m03s

    You could always try to best Desk’s hit count with Seth. Dunno what it is at now, but look through his CMVs and you should find them.

    I recommend you check my videos for some stuff seth can do, mainly these:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZNPN_6fnyc#t=5m30s
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYfZxtOCLk4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXebWdq-hZI#t=1m39s

    I guess watching these doesn’t hurt either (For SSFIV stun combos, keep in mind that hyakuretsukuaku does less stun in SSFIV):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqOKH5PDFBM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ6AFeZBcU4

    Hope this provides some help.

  15. Maj Post author

    Thanks, that helps a lot. The problem with Seth is that he kind of represents the perfect storm of shit i don’t want to deal with:

    – Everything works, up to a clearly defined limit which won’t budge.
    – His execution barriers aren’t nearly as harsh as Akuma/Chun Li/Sakura’s.
    – Everything looks “fun” so every little thing has been recorded.
    – SF4 is nearly three years old and Seth hasn’t evolved in over a year.
    – That rat bastard stole Guile’s Sonic Booms and made them -2!

    It would be very easy for me to record a bunch of crazy-looking, high-hitcount combos and make a dazzling video that contains zero innovation. The real challenge is coming up with anything new that wouldn’t immediately get lost in the sea of familiar hits.

    Anyway i’ll start working on it next week and we’ll see what happens.

  16. Doopliss

    What really bothers me with Seth is the fact that the only special move he can juggle with is EX tanden… Really, would juggling with EX SB and maybe EX Hyakuretsukyaku really be so bad capcom?

  17. Pokey86

    EX Hyakaretsu with JP? Thats dangerous, after all an AA SRK in or near corne would end in ALOT of damage & a reset situation. Hell i wouldn’t say no, but i can see the danger in it.

  18. Doopliss

    Well, it does have JP in Koyu, and there, you’re able to combo legs into legs indefinitely… XD

  19. Pokey86

    & Koryu isn’t broken in the slightest :P

    some notable traits for Seth for you Maj

    After suction, you can EX Tanden Dan back in after Crouch HP to 3 LP SRK’s. (Same can be done to Hawk i believe)

    on shotos, after suction you can do crouch LK -> Stand LK -> Close HP -> Sonic Boom. FADC after gives you bonus frames, you can FADC to Crouch HP/Ultra 1/2.

    Close HP on counterhit can combo in to EX Suction.

    In Vanilla SFIV, you can hit an airborne Crouch HP (Second hit) cancel in to teleport & continue a combo.

    I think that’s everything i know. If i could request a “style” of combo it would be. anything involving meaty set ups, i’m completely ignorant to any Seth might have, if he has any at all. (Besides the sonic boom FADC above)

  20. Maj Post author

    Since we’re talking about including a Seth vs Seth damage combo, it’s usually best to test that stuff first to avoid repeating elements in other combos. This seems to be his best dizzy starter:

    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, walk forward, close s.HK, close s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsukyaku (382 damage, 785 stun)

    There aren’t too many alternatives:

    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HP DP x3 (394dmg/700stun)
    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx EX DP x3 (429dmg/715stun)

    Pokey86 told me about that close s.HK, close s.HP link and it leads to a lot of damage without costing any meter. All versions of Hyakuretsukyaku have the same damage/dizzy numbers, including the EX version.

    Going back to the Hyakuretsu version, here are some damage trials:

    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), ultra (548dmg)
    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), lvl3 Focus Attack xx dash forward, c.HP, ultra (561dmg)
    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), lvl3 Focus Attack, ultra (565dmg)

    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), vertical j.HK, c.HP xx EX Tanden Engine, c.HP, ultra (554dmg)
    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), vertical j.HK, ultra (568dmg)
    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), vertical j.HK, c.HP xx EX Tanden, c.HP xx EX Tanden, c.HP, ultra (581dmg)
    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), vertical j.HK, c.HP, ultra (591dmg)

    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), lvl3 Focus Attack xx dash backward, HP super (592dmg)
    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), HP super (594dmg)

    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), vertical j.HK, s.HP xx HP Sonic Boomx x HP super (609dmg)
    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), vertical j.HK, LP super (612dmg)
    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), vertical j.HK, s.HP xx HP super (620dmg)

    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), HP Tanden Engine, s.HK, s.HP xx HP Sonic Boom xx HP super (615dmg)
    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), HP Tanden Engine, close s.HK, close s.HP xx HP super (626dmg)

    Unfortunately that close s.HK, close s.HP link is very tempermental and requires certain setups to work. It works consistently after Tanden Engine and on crouching Seth, but usually doesn’t work against standing Seth.

    Seth’s Tanden Storm super seems to be his best source of damage but unfortunately the simplest combo does the most damage. I’d like to test out some really long combos before i give up though. So what’s the longest combo Seth with full super/ultra meter can perform against dizzy Seth?

  21. Tigre III

    Well, if some stuff of our work can help you…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nwDbQQ2bF4
    You can easy add more hits here…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gijk4nyuwvY
    Maybe you can try to connect, as Pokey86 say, airborne Crouch HP (Second hit) cancel in to teleport against air lp of Dalshim (for example) and c.HP (second hit again)… If you manage it to take the right position near the corner, then you can connect c.HP (two hits) c.HP (second hit) EX tandem, and same… Maybe you can do something cool with a lot of c.HP…
    I havent seen so much interrupts with Seth, maybe you can find some new here… Hyakuretsu has some strange properties if you interrupt it, but is not new. Interrupt his Super could be really hard, because from the back side, Seth is invincible (im sure in SSF4, in SF4 i guess that is the same)
    Maybe you can try some cool with stomp(first one) starting from the ground and hitting the dummy very low, then j.HK and then something that allows to do another stomp from the ground again?

  22. Maj Post author

    There’s gotta be something better than that. Man, that’s not even close to killing Seth. 75% damage is discouraging, especially factoring in ultra-2.

    Anyway here’s something interesting about that close s.HK, close s.HP link. The reason it works after Tangen Engine isn’t the same reason it works on crouching opponents. Tanden Engine pulls them in real close and continues pulling after Seth has recovered, which helps reduce pre-impact pushback.

    But you can clearly see s.HK behaving differently against a crouching opponent. The first hit of Seth’s close s.HK has 2 active frames. If it connects on the first frame, that leaves a 1-frame gap before the second hit. On a crouching opponent, s.HK connects on the 2nd active frame as it’s coming down, eliminating that gap. That’s 1 less frame of pushback from the first hit before the second hit overrides the first hit’s remaining pushback.

    Against a standing opponent (especially someone as big/tall as Seth), it’s pretty much impossible to avoid that first active frame, which means a little extra pushback.

  23. error1

    going through the characters with over 900 stun and found out that it works vs a crouching dan, didn’t manage to get a jump in, not sure it’s possible due to his horrible hit reaction

  24. Maj Post author

    Sweet, that sounds promising. Yeah i hadn’t gotten a chance to test out any dummies apart from Seth, but i would’ve been very surprised if there wasn’t at least one other viable candidate.

  25. Pokey86

    Heres a few options you can use, i have no idea if they do more damage, i don’t have Super to hand.

    Oh & are you using Neutral jump HK? I’m pretty sure it does more damage than horizontal jump.

    These are all presuming you do your hyakaretsu combo to dizzy.

    Damage through lots of attacks:

    Sonic Boom -> Jump HK (Might be able to add stomp before this with Tool assist i’m not sure) Crouch HP -> Jump MP (Might be worth skipping)-> EX Upper -> EX Tanden

    Then either Crouch HP -> Ultra

    Or Stand HK -> Stand HP -> HK Legs -> Stomp set

    Damage through strong attacks:

    Tanden -> Close HK -> Close HP -> Sonic Boom -> FADC -> Close HK -> Close HP -> Sonic Boom -> FADC…

    Then either Crouch HP (Which should hit thanks to Frame adv on the boom) -> Ultra

    Or Close HK -> Close HP -> HK Legs -> Stomp set

  26. Pokey86

    OK For reference

    THIS IS THE SIMPLE COMBO TO BEAT -> All post “Standard Dizzy combo” (Hyakaretsu finish)


    Tanden -> Stand HK -> Stand HP -> Super = 626

    I’ve done a combo that hits 633 if you can find a place to add any damage then grats, but this is pretty specific.


    Tanden -> Stand HK -> Close HP -> Boom -> FADC -> Close HK -> Close HP -> Boom -> Focus Attack Level 2 -> Tanden -> Close HK -> Close HP -> Legs -> Stomp Set = 633

    Also if it’s possible to start with neutral jump HP you can add about 12 points of damage to the combo.

    The FA Lvl2 hits at the 10% scaling point so at that stage it’s all hits count, it’s not damage effective to do that Focus attack at the first FADC though. if you can figure out something better to do after the Focus attack then Go for it, i have no idea how much meter gain you have at that point & i can confirm that Crouch HP Ultra does less damage. Can’t see any use meter you migth accumulate though, unless you gain it early enough to do an EX boom instead of a normal boom.

    As for after that final Focus attack i don’t know what does more damage.

    Tanden -> Close HK -> Close HP -> Legs + Stomp

    or

    Tanden -> Close HK -> Crouch LP -> Stand LP -> Crouch MK -> Legs + Stomp (Might be able to add another jab somewhere, don’t know)

    Still, beat the super finish combo though, so win-win at this stage ^_^

  27. Maj Post author

    Yeah, vertical j.HK means neutral jump HK. Seth’s body creates so much space with that move that it’s basically useless for standard jump-in combos. And his walk speed is atrocious, so he has no way of closing that gap.

    I’ll try adding extra jabs anywhere they might help. Seth has good frame advantage on his standing jabs, but his slow walk speed means he probably can’t earn even one extra jab in most situations.

    Anyway thanks for all the research. I’m still undecided on whether to include a damage combo. Seems kind of pointless if Seth can’t even break 650. But i’ll make the decision after i see the combo in action.

  28. Maj Post author

    So how does Tanden Engine work? It’s +23 at point blank range and decreases as distance increases? I’m guessing the hit stun is fixed but Seth’s recovery varies based on when the opponent reaches him. Is that correct?

    Seems like a lot of frame advantage! Judging by the numbers, he should be able to link HP Tanden Stream, EX Tanden Stream, EX Tanden Stream. Can he really do that?

  29. Pokey86

    I’ve never tried, but yes as far as i’m aware the closer they are the better the frame advantage, i’m pretty sure that if you hit it meaty at a distance it makes no difference.

    EX Tanden has the advantage of being a hit though, which means you can catch limbs such as Simbs Fierce. Perhaps if timed right you can do a long distance suction against him with “best” frame advatage. Can’t think of wht you’d do though.

  30. Maj Post author

    Wait, don’t you have that backwards? If you catch Sim’s limb from full screen away, wouldn’t Seth forfeit all that frame advantage?

  31. Pokey86

    I’m thinking if you time it so Sims limbs just miss Seth as his EX Tanden Kicks in then it should activate at the point closest to Seth, which would be the limb that didn’t hit.

    Of course when the suction kicks in Sim is still a long way away. So you should get max frame advantage for longest distance.

    I haven’t tested this though.

  32. Maj Post author

    Oh i see what you mean. Nah, that’s not how it works. Using limbs to reach into Seth’s body doesn’t trigger his recovery animation.

    Plus it wouldn’t really matter even if it did, because Tanden Engine doesn’t register on the combo counter by itself, so it wouldn’t be very satisfying to watch the results. You need at least one hit before Tanden Engine for it to feel like an actual combo, which you can’t do if you need the dummy to push a button in the middle.

    However, EX Tanden Engine does combo into itself at point blank range:

    Seth lvl3 Focus Attack xx dash forward, HP Tanden Engine, EX Tanden Engine, EX Tanden Engine, s.HP = 2 hit combo!

  33. Maj Post author

    Noticed something weird just now. Sometimes s.HK misses the second hit after lvl3 Focus Attack xx dash forward, EX Tanden Engine against Dhalsim. It only seems to happen with the EX version and only following crumple stun. That’s a bizarre set of requirements.

    Maybe it’s possible to connect the second hit of s.HK on its second active frame to generate +6 frame advantage instead of +5? The problem is, Seth’s only 6-frame attack is far s.MP which is only super-cancelable. If EX Tanden Engine is necessary, then all he can do is far s.MP xx lvl1 EX Focus Attack which doesn’t even combo.

    Also i haven’t seen the second hit meaty against Dhalsim. It can hit twice, but it looks normal when it does. So this is a long way from being useful and it might require a different dummy, but i’m making a note of it just in case.

  34. Pokey86

    Here’s another wierd thing with Seth… This was in AE so it might be fine in Vanilla.

    If you do level 2 Focus attack then wait for the opponent to get floored (I back dash the FA then forward dash) then do EX Tanden, when you suck them back Crouch HP will only hit once.

  35. Maj Post author

    Strange. Maybe that’s what was happening with s.HK against Dhalsim as well? EX Tanden Engine has enough startup that i might’ve been picking Sim up off the floor half the time. I don’t know, i’ll keep it in mind, but i doubt any of this will lead to anything useful.

  36. Doopliss

    Pokey86 :
    Here’s another wierd thing with Seth… This was in AE so it might be fine in Vanilla.
    If you do level 2 Focus attack then wait for the opponent to get floored (I back dash the FA then forward dash) then do EX Tanden, when you suck them back Crouch HP will only hit once.

    That’s actually the Grounded Juggle Glitch with EX Tanden. Try doing, like, two c.LKs after the EX Tanden or something. Maybe that’s what you’re doing too, Maj. If you get it to hit once again, try doing c.LP or something like that and see if it connects. If not, it’s the Grounded Juggle Glitch, which means only a move with JP1 can connect after the first hit you get after the EX Tanden.

  37. Maj Post author

    Is there a videoclip of that glitch somewhere? I couldn’t find anything on u2b showing stuff whiffing after EX Tanden Engine.

  38. Pokey86

    I don’t hink anything whiffs… perhaps it’s a glitch where a standing opponents hitstun is classed as airborne & thus only moves with jp can hit after the first hit. (Like they are in float state, only standing)

    I might have a fiddle with it soon, i guess that would mean that Sonic boom -> Focus attack wouldn’t hit.

  39. Maj Post author

    Oh i see what you’re saying. So you get one free hit after EX Tanden Engine, but if the opponent was already crumpled down after the Focus Attack, then everything after that first hit whiffs unless it has juggle potential.

    Why does that only happen after Focus Attack crumple stun? It doesn’t seem to happen whenever EX Tanden Engine connects after an EX DP triplet, or after c.HP xx LP Sonic Boom, EX Tanden Engine in the corner.

  40. error1

    it’s probably beacuse the crumple puts them in a weird grounded air state, the ex tanden grounds the opponent and resets the jp, but the opponent is already grounded and the jp is 0 so it screws up and keeps the jp as if the opponent was standing.
    Really interesting though, beacuse this is the first time I’ve heard of a grounded juggle state with a jp of 0

  41. Doopliss

    It’s like that if you use it as an AA too, so if you hit someone that’s in a non-hitstun airborne state with it (well, and late crumple stun), the glitch will be triggered.

  42. Pokey86

    I’ll have to add this infor to the guide. It basically causes a Ground “float” state, because if you do EX Tanden -> EX Tanden, then it combos normally.

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