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SF4 Biyearly TACV 18: Seth

April 24th, 2012 Leave a comment Go to comments

As the primary end boss of the Street Fighter IV series, Seth’s moveset contains quite a bit of boss character nonsense – including an EX move that grounds airborne opponents. He excels at pretty much everything except dealing high damage. Making this video was more fun than i expected, but finding the time for it also took considerably longer than i might’ve anticipated.

0:11 The entire goal of this setup was to integrate two F+PPP Yoga Teleports into a single combo. Seth’s teleport lasts for 40 frames while his s.HP only causes 22 frames of hit stun. How do you fill the gap? Put a Sonic Boom in the middle! Unfortunately, Seth’s LP Sonic Boom travels annoyingly fast whereas his walk/dash/jump movement speed sucks. Furthermore, the SF4 camera resists scrolling which drastically impedes Seth’s ability to race past his own fireball. Luckily it turns out that M.Bison’s HK Knee Press Nightmare pushes (slightly) past the edge of the screen, which creates that tiny bit of extra space necessary to delay the fireball impact enough to make this sequence click. Of course, the SF4 engine hates crossup combos so there isn’t much Seth can do midscreen with Bison leaning into him. I thought s.MK would look more interesting than another s.LP, c.MK rerun. By the way, that c.HK sweep at the end is a one-frame link off lvl2 Focus Attack xx dash forward, F+PPP Yoga Teleport.

0:22 Trading with Seth’s Hyakuretsukyaku produces roughly the same hit stun duration as a standard hard attack, but interrupting him shortly after it connects maintains its unique extended reaction. Both instances are shown here. First, Seth’s LK Hyakuretsukyaku trades with Rose’s close s.LK, then her LP Soul Spark interrupts another LK Hyakuretsukyaku to set up crossup j.HK, c.HP, HK Hyakuretsukyaku back into the corner for the stompy super finish.

0:40 “Maj Productions presents Seven Focus Attacks! (starring Seth’s Focus Attack as Chariot Tackle and Yoga Catastrophe as Aegis Reflector).” I’d been meaning to revisit this setup with Seth ever since i introduced it in SF4 TACV 02 using El Fuerte, but error1 beat me to it. Nevertheless, i decided to include my own variation with seven lvl2 Focus Attacks, mainly for the sake of completeness. I kept the combo out of the corner as long as possible, but it’s necessary for the fifth Focus Attack to connect after the first HP Sonic Boom. Also, Seth can perform lvl2 Focus Attack xx dash forward, lvl1 Focus Attack as a ground combo, so theoretically it should be possible to KO with that lvl1 Focus Attack and juggle another lvl1 Focus Attack. Sadly, it’s a couple frames too slow to connect. This combo inflicts 318 damage and 534 stun.

0:59 As if Seth’s dizzy potential wasn’t already through the roof, Pokey86 discovered he can link close s.HP after close c.HK under certain circumstances against a handful of characters. It works after j.HP on crouching Sakura, who happens to have 1000 stun points – not a problem for someone who can begin a combo with five hard attacks in six hits. The post-dizzy combo simply showcases Seth’s ability to juggle j.D+MK after c.HP xx MP Shoryuken x2, which requires surprisingly precise spacing against Sakura. This combo deals 571 damage.

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1:21 This combo aims to maximize Seth’s damage output by leveraging his newfound ability to link close s.HK, close s.HP after Tanden Engine on standing Seth or j.HK on crouching Seth, which leads to 785 stun in four moves without meter cost. Once he reaches the 10% damage scaling threshold, close s.HK, close s.LK, s.LP, c.MK xx HP Sonic Boom xx lvl2 EX Focus Attack becomes his most damaging ground sequence. Apart from containing several one-frame links, this combo is relatively straightward, yielding 642 damage.

1:46 All versions of Seth’s Tanden Engine elicit the same reaction on success without inflicting damage or registering on the combo counter. Seth himself recovers when the opponent touches him. The result is that Seth gains +23 frame advantage on hit at point blank range, and progressively less frame advantage the further the opponent must travel to reach him. Seth’s EX Tanden Engine acts as a simple hit, which means it’s capable of affecting opponents during hit stun. Conversely, the regular versions of Tanden Engine behave more like throws, so they whiff through hit stun. EX Tanden Engine also happens to become active on frame 23, thereby making LP Tanden Engine, EX Tanden Engine, EX Tanden Engine a genuine (zero-hit, zero-damage) combo with two one-frame links. Killing an opponent with a light attack renders them vulnerable to throws which also includes HP Tanden Engine. The only reason Honda serves as the opponent is because Seth can whiff close s.LP twice over his head after EX Tanden Engine and still have enough time to link c.LP at point blank range, bringing the total number of unregistered attacks up to six.

2:06 Seth’s lvl3 Focus Attack trades with Seth’s lvl1 Focus Attack because it looks cool, which combos into lvl2 Focus Attack, which sets up a full-arc j.D+MK pseudo-OTG which looks cool. Landing the crossup EX Tanden Engine requires a particular combination of j.D+MK stomp timings, but it’s fairly straightforward otherwise. Seth’s body bobbles slightly during his focus crumple animation, which acts as a meaty setup for s.LP, providing the 1 frame of additional advantage necessary for s.LP, j.D+MK -> j.D+MK -> j.D+HK to link properly. Seth’s height and hit stun width cast him as the perfect dummy candidate for this combo. However, the j.D+HK divekick connects too high, making it impossible to follow up normally. Luckily j.D+HK happens to trigger a (slightly extended) light attack reaction, which means it causes crumple instead of knockdown on KO – allowing both hits of s.HK to pelt dead Seth.

This is a tool-assisted combo video recorded with two ASCII PAD V Pro programmable controllers. Absolutely no cheats, hacks, or game-altering devices were used in the making of.

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  1. April 24th, 2012 at 23:00 | #1

    I still can’t believe believe how much time passed between the Sagat TACV and this one. Work has been keeping me crazy busy.

    Anyway i think this episode turned out pretty well overall, thanks to everyone who contributed ideas way back in July. (Wow, last July!)

    I’ll try to write up the customary transcript this weekend, but in the meantime, please don’t hesitate to ask questions about any specific combos.

  2. onreload
    April 24th, 2012 at 23:18 | #2

    Great stuff as usual! At the end of the Sakura combo, couldn’t you have jumped forward for three stomps into divekick? Or was it a stylistic choice to use neutral jump and sacrifice a stomp?

  3. April 24th, 2012 at 23:27 | #3

    Seth’s third j.D+MK stomp and j.D+HK divekick both have the same juggle potential of four. So c.HP creates a free juggle, then the first DP counts as the basic knockdown and the second DP raises the juggle count to 1. Two stomps raise the juggle count to 3.

    At that point you have a choice between the third stomp or the divekick, but not both. Divekick does more damage so i went with that. Plus yeah, neutral jump looks cool.

  4. Ryukenden
    April 24th, 2012 at 23:33 | #4

    Great cmv. I was surprised to see your upload in subscription. I really like those fireball combos where your character gets interrupted.

  5. Doopliss
    April 25th, 2012 at 02:22 | #5

    About the s.LP to stomp in the last combo, is that a meaty s.LP, or is it just a normal link?

  6. Woe Is You
    April 25th, 2012 at 04:02 | #6

    The site is called Sonic Hurricane and Guile is the last TACV to be done? Come on, man!

    Seeing vanilla Seth like this makes me wonder how overpowered he’d have been if it hadn’t taken till 2011 to realize how to play him.

  7. Kikuichimonji
    April 25th, 2012 at 05:34 | #7

    You can do j.hk cl.hk c.lp xx Sonic Boom FADC cl.hk cl.hp xx Sonic Boom FADC cl.hk cl.hp xx legs -> stomps. I would think that would do more, at least until damage scaling gets to 10%.

  8. April 25th, 2012 at 08:34 | #8

    wow these are as good as I remember, love the rejump at the end.

  9. TheMonkey
    April 25th, 2012 at 14:11 | #9

    Glad to see your stuff again Maj :)

  10. April 25th, 2012 at 23:15 | #10

    Doopliss: That’s a meaty s.LP created by the focus crumple bobble. You can use counterhit s.LP too, but i’m fairly certain it’s impossible without meaty or counterhit. Also i tested it against about half the cast and only Seth was tall and wide enough to get hit by two stomps.

    Woe Is You: The character order was determined by screenshot contest winners so leaving Guile for last wasn’t really my choice, but it’s pretty funny how it worked out that way. I’m not sure if i can find anything new with him, but i’m looking forward to trying.

    Kikuichimonji: That’s pretty close to Pokey86’s suggestion which ended up at 633 damage. I’ll try to provide more damage numbers later, but the problem is that you reach the minimum damage percentage very quickly anyway, so there’s almost no point to wasting meter on avoiding it. Especially since Seth’s ultra is worthless for damage.

    Ryukenden, error1, TheMonkey: Thank you sirs.

  11. Bob Sagat
    April 29th, 2012 at 02:36 | #11

    Nice! Glad to see this series is still going. They’re always fun to watch because they’re short and to the point, yet still show off some awesome stuff.

  12. April 30th, 2012 at 01:58 | #12

    Well, i couldn’t quit with only two characters remaining. Hopefully i can start working on Guile soon.

    Anyway the transcript is ready. It should answer most questions, but don’t hesitate to ask for clarifications and whatnot. I still want to post more damage info, but that’ll have to wait until tomorrow.

  13. April 30th, 2012 at 15:30 | #13

    Alright so this is the Seth vs Seth damage combo in the video:

    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), lvl3 FA xx dash, HP Tanden Engine, s.HK, s.HP xx HP Sonic Boom xx lvl2 EX FA, LP Tanden Engine, s.HK, s.LK, s.LP, c.MK xx HP Sonic Boom xx lvl2 EX FA xx dash, LP Tanden Engine, s.HK, s.LK, s.LP, c.MK xx MK Hyakuretsu, j.D+MK -> j.D+MK -> j.D+MK -> j.D+HK (642dmg)

    That damage value includes combo scaling as well as lifebar-based damage reduction. Let’s calculate its theoretical damage without lifebar scaling:

    (90*1.25) + (40+70) + (90*0.8) + ((20*0.7)+((4*0.7)*15)+(40*0.7)) + (150*0.5) + ((40*0.4)+(70*0.4)) + (90*0.3) + (60*0.2) + (85*0.1) + ((40*0.1)+(70*0.1)) + (35*0.1) + (30*0.1) + (50*0.1) + (60*0.1) + (85*0.1) + ((40*0.1)+(70*0.1)) + (35*0.1) + (30*0.1) + (50*0.1) + ((20*0.1)+((4*0.1)*15)+(40*0.1)) + (50*0.1) + (30*0.1) + (35*0.1) +(60*0.1)

    = 113 + 110 + 72 + 87 + 75 + 44 + 27 + 12 + 9 + 11 + 4 + 3 + 5 + 6 + 9 + 11 + 4 + 3 + 5 + 21 + 5 + 3 + 4 + 6 = 649 damage (non-lifebar-scaled)

    All versions of Hyakuretsukyaku deal 120 base damage over 17 hits. It’s interesting that HK Hyakuretsukyaku does 87 damage at 70% instead of 84 damage. It’s even more interesting that MK Hyakuretsukyaku does 21 damage at 10% instead of 12 damage.

    Anyway here’s the optimal version of the combo suggested by Kikuichimonji:

    Seth counterhit j.HK vs Seth crouch, s.HK, s.HP xx HK Hyakuretsu (Seth dizzy), j.HK, s.HK, c.MP xx HP Sonic Boom xx FADC, s.HK, s.LK, s.LP, c.MK xx HP Sonic Boom xx lvl2 EX FA xx dash, LP Tanden Engine, s.HK, s.LK, s.LP, c.MK xx MK Hyakuretsu, j.D+MK -> j.D+MK -> j.D+MK -> j.D+HK

    (90*1.25) + (40+70) + (90*0.8) + ((20*0.7)+((4*0.7)*15)+(40*0.7)) + (90*0.6) + ((40*0.5)+(70*0.5)) + (50*0.4) + (60*0.3) + ((40*0.2)+(70*0.2)) + (35*0.1) + (30*0.1) + (50*0.1) + (60*0.1) + (85*0.1) + ((40*0.1)+(70*0.1)) + (35*0.1) + (30*0.1) + (50*0.1) + ((20*0.1)+((4*0.1)*15)+(40*0.1)) + (50*0.1) + (30*0.1) + (35*0.1) +(60*0.1)

    = 113 + 110 + 72 + 87 + 54 + 55 + 20 + 18 + 22 + 4 + 3 + 5 + 6 + 9 + 11 + 4 + 3 + 5 + 21 + 5 + 3 + 4 + 6 = 640 damage (non-lifebar-scaled)

    As you can see, you lose more damage than you gain by replacing lvl3 Focus Attack with j.HK and accounting for the other ripples it creates. The only obvious way to improve this variant is by using vertical j.HK instead. But that only adds 6 points of damage, and might not even work because vertical j.HK is such an awful combo starter.

  1. April 24th, 2012 at 23:48 | #1
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