Vega has all the requisite combo limitations of a non-fireball character. He’s got a few stylish juggle sequences, but not much else. Sakura has one of the worst fireballs in the game, but it still adds variety to her combo openings and allows her to land lvl2 Focus Attacks. Otherwise her LK Shunpukyaku loops would dominate her combo options even more.
0:11 Vega’s Rolling Izuna Drop super is a true throw, so crumple stun is obviously the only way to combo it. Vega must stand close to the corner to minimize his Flying Barcelona Special’s startup time after Viper’s s.LK trades with his lvl3 Focus Attack. Otherwise she’ll drop out of reach before he can get there. Vega actually manages to get behind her here, initiating the grab going left to right. HK Flying Barcelona Special and HP Rolling Izuna Drop versions were used, but i don’t think it makes any difference.
0:20 The rising hit of Vega’s EX Flying Barcelona Attack creates a one-time free juggle state. Trading with Chun Li’s backward j.LP gives him plenty of time to recover and follow up with the last active frame of EX Scarlet Terror, putting her in standard knockdown state. Then Vega has just barely enough time to connect EX Sky High Claw off the opposite wall midscreen, due to its juggle potential of one.
0:27 The trick to this combo is starting out with ample space between the two characters. After Vega’s lvl3 Focus Attack trades with Cammy’s s.LK, the next lvl3 Focus Attack brings the edge of the screen closer to Vega’s back than it would’ve with Vega and Cammy standing right next to each other. This minimizes the startup time of Vega’s Bloody High Claw ultra. Of course i also tried going off the opposite wall behind Cammy, but that idea wasn’t even close to working; at least not midscreen.
0:36 This appears to be the closest Vega can get to dizzying Seth. With damage as the primary goal, performing this combo after removing Vega’s mask grants him a 10% damage bonus. Oddly enough, j.HP, s.MP xx MP Rolling Crystal Flash yields higher damage and stun than j.HP, s.HP (one hit) xx HP Rolling Crystal Flash. Executing c.MP xx HK Scarlet Terror directly after FADC requires nearly one-frame charge precision, but happens to be the most damaging option at that point. This combo deals 509 damage with Vega’s mask on, 559 damage without the mask, and 733 stun regardless.
0:45 Vega can juggle his neutral Flying Barcelona Special after HK Scarlet Terror against a number of characters, but it depends on ending up close enough to the corner to reduce the super’s startup time. Linking three c.LP’s before the HK Scarlet Terror reduced the viable candidate pool to Gouken, Balrog, Rufus, and Dhalsim. I chose Gouken because the others are already well-known juggle dummies. This combo inflicts 374 damage and 530 stun.
0:54 Interrupting the final stab of Vega’s HP Rolling Crystal Flash with a standard projectile barely provides enough frame advantage to link c.MP, and from too far away to follow up with anything other than LP Rolling Crystal Flash. At that range it’s also impossible to land any additional hits before the LP Rolling Crystal Flash. The wall-bound hit of EX Flying Barcelona Attack creates a free state, the single-hit neutral followup puts Rose in standard knockdown state, and EX Scarlet Terror connects once since it has a juggle potential of one. This combo totals 475 damage and 646 stun.
1:08 Sakura’s EX Shunpukyaku finisher beats Dhalsim’s backward j.MK and creates a free juggle state. HK Airborne Shunpukyaku puts him in standard knockdown state. EX Hadoken has a juggle potential of one. Each spin of HK Shunpukyaku has progressive juggle potentials of zero, one, and two. The last spin connects, but acts as non-knockdown attack which allows Dhalsim to land on his feet and block the remaining EX Hadoken hit.
1:15 Sakura’s LK Shunpukyaku crosses up Akuma’s idle crouching hitbox, then crosses him up again as he’s rising from crouching crumple stun caused by her lvl2 Focus Attack. She can’t rebuild meter fast enough to gain access to that fifth bar before her MP Shouoken raises the juggle count to two. At that point she can’t use it for anything.
1:33 El Fuerte’s hitbox enables the highest number of consecutive s.MK xx LK Shunpukyaku loops. Each repetition pushes Sakura a little bit farther away, but she can keep going as long as she stays within close s.MK range. Canceling close s.MK moves Sakura forward significantly, whereas the rest of her normals prove no such benefit. Sakura actually walks backward between each s.LP and c.HP in order to establish proper spacing for HP Hadoken xx lvl2 Focus Attack. Of course she does walk forward during the final stretch, wherever the frame data allows it. That LP+LK throw was thrown in just for style. It’s pretty much the slowest move she can whiff at that interval. The counterhit meaty HP Hadoken (max charge), lvl2 Focus Attack setup at the beginning was the very last component added to the combo. El Fuerte cancels his Personal Action 07 into s.HP to create the counterhit opportunity. It’s a rather versatile setup because it’s easy to control the timing on that. This combo causes 594 damage and 851 stun.
2:04 Sakura’s close s.MP normally provides +3 frame advantage and her c.HP connects on the 4th frame. However, crossup j.HP creates a meaty setup for s.MP against crouching Akuma. Its frame advantage is raised to +4 as it connects on its second active frame. EX Shunpukyaku launches Akuma into a free juggle state, the first hit of EX Shouoken puts Akuma in standard knockdown, and the next two hits raise the juggle count to two. Proper corner spacing causes the second uppercut of her EX Shouoken to connect as late as possible, allowing her to recover in time to connect one last HP Shouoken hit, which has a juggle potential of three.
2:17 In the corner, Sakura can combo j.HK directly after counterhit fully charged HP Hadoken simply by throwing it from max range. The problem is, she can’t move back fast enough after recovering from HK Shunpukyaku to set up another meaty max range fully charged Hadoken, which is necessary to combo another jump attack. This whole midscreen setup is geared toward positioning Sakura exactly at that spot, so she doesn’t have to waste time walking backward after HK Shunpukyaku. It turns out that j.HK is not only necessary for achieving fatal damage, but also for rebuilding enough super meter for that crucial final FADC. The rest was straightforward optimization. This combo registers 766 damage in Training Mode with all three HK Shunpukyaku hits connecting, or 760 damage with the last hit whiffing due to KO.
This is a tool-assisted combo video recorded with two ASCII PAD V Pro programmable controllers. Absolutely no cheats, hacks, or game-altering devices were used in the making of.
Just so you guys know, there’s no way this episode’s getting done for at least another couple of days. Sorry about the delay. I hope i can get back on track in time for the next episode, but i also have a couple of things to wrap up before Evo, so no guarantees.
If it’s any consolation, the Sakura combos are turning out alright and i have some ideas for Vega that i’m looking forward to testing out.
^_^
I’m hopin new for sakura!
I am still waiting akuma/bison scripts.
Random question here. Posted on SRK and got no answer, but I figured you’d know:
What happens if two characters attempt to command grab each other on the same frame? I.E. pile driver. Do they both whiff?
Apparently it’s Random there after.
Easy way to test is do Akumas Ultra at distance… it’s all random from there.
some time they both whiff. i saw it in arcade several times. 2 spd whiff at a very close distance.
@zero
I don’t think they can whiff. Any time two throws happen at the same time one will win at random. You probably saw it whiff because many command throws have some invincibility or throw invulnerability.
interestingly throws always beat normals if they happen on the same frame
Hopefully this’ll tie you guys over before the TACV comes out, its a little video from Meinaikage, showing attacks in SSF4 that are classified as projectiles, like Rufus’ Galactic Tornado, which is how it can nullify projectiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqM6kxqRg_g
zero: Damn, totally forgot about them. It’s posted now.
taofeld: Simultaneous command throws have always been resolved randomly in Capcom games. Normal throws too, with 3S as the only major exception, where you get a tech out of it. Randomness isn’t a perfect solution but these situations don’t come up often enough for it to be a practical/balance issue.
ShaXan: Nice video. I liked the Dee Jay stuff.
On the subject of throws, I was able to throw my friend out of Honda’s ultra 2, can’t remember if I pressed the buttons before or after ultra start up. But he just went *sigh* and let me finish him off so he could go back to ultra 1.
Here’s an old Vega “Tutorial” I made a year ago for those who would like to see basic stuff while they wait for advanced combos etc ^^ :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30L8A60MyUU
Tried to look at this on my setup, but as expected too many typos to get reliable results. Perhaps the SF4 PC crew could look at this with macros.
@noodalls
I’ve answered this before on srk, it’s random
http://shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=225947&p=8391757&viewfull=1#post8391757
I play Abel, when I’m in a mirror match and we do a simultaneous TT, we both whiff… I’m not sure about different command grabs though. I know Abel can beat command ultras easily though.
@EasierToRun09
yes that’s because non ex TT has throw invincibility. The ex version has hit invincibility but can be thrown. If you do a ex and a non ex at the same time the non ex will always win
@error1
Well I know that about the EX/Non-EX, but don’t most command grabs follow the same rule as in they’re invulnerable to throws yes? That’s kind of the point I was trying to make, if it didn’t seem that clear.
nah, they just take priority if you do a throw VS C.throw & they hit on the same frame, the command throw will win.
@EasierToRun09
no the only other command grabs with some invulnerability is ex spd for (seth, gief) and giefs and El Fuertes ultra. Idk about any of the throws in ssf4 tho
@Pokey86
no if a normal throw and a command throw happen on the same frame it’s random who wins. It’s just that many command throws are faster and have better range.
@error1
Hakan’s and thawk’s ex both have some hit invunerability.
Quick update: I’m done with all the Sakura clips so i just need to record a couple more Vega combos and hopefully it’ll be ready by tomorrow.
really wanna see vega. i have no idea about what he can do in sf4.
Haha well i can tell you right now, it ain’t much.
really looking forward to saks, don’t know if you’ve done this already or can’t add it but I’d love to see how many jabs saks can combo by walking forward for 4 frames inbetween.
Actually i was gonna attempt that but her segment is long enough without it. I’ve got five combos with Sakura and i’m struggling to come up with a fourth for Vega. He can’t even dizzy Seth. How sad is that?
So do you plan to only work on the Vanilla characters for now?
@Maj
Sad, very sad. He can buff himself and he can’t take out the weakest char, jeese.
Well, Vega didn’t turn out so great, but i’m finally done. Exporting/encoding now. Should be up in a couple of hours.
Yay! I think we all knew that after you’ve traded with all his specials he’s got nothing more to offer.
It’s still processing but it should be viewable now, so you can finally watch Sakura spin to her heart’s content.
The usual full combo transcript will be posted within the next day or two.
Hahaha so in the last couple of hours since i uploaded this episode, somehow i lost a subscriber. Went from 3919 to 3918, and i noticed because i was going back and forth responding to channel comments.
Nice job Vega!
Poor Vega. He looked so sad watching Seth falling without dizzy.
Damn, Vega turned out a lot better than you had us believing.
Also, really liked the crossup lk tatsu that sakura did vs cr.akuma
I just noticed something, in all of your TACVs, do you always try for a fifth bar of super?
I liked the sakura fireball variations, especially the fuerte one. Is he the only one with a taunt that reduces his hitbox that much?
Wow I’m happy you’ve done Claw such an awesome demonstration!
Grabbing your mask after a combo? It can’t get much classier than that.
wilerson: Haha yea, that’s the closest he can get.
Vega counterhit j.HP, s.MP xx MP roll xx FADC, c.LP, c.MP xx LP roll xx FADC, c.MP xx HK flipkick (250+100+128+35+60+60+40+60=733stun)
Vega counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack (trade), j.HP, s.MP xx MP roll xx FADC, c.LP, c.MP xx LP roll xx FADC, c.LP, c.LP, c.MP xx HK flipkick (250+160+70+96+25+40+36+10+5+10+20=722stun)
Vega counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack (trade), j.HP, s.MP xx MP roll xx FADC, c.LP, c.MP xx LP roll xx FADC, c.LP, c.MP xx HK flipkick (250+160+70+96+25+40+36+10+10+20=717stun)
Vega counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack (trade), j.HP, s.MP xx MP roll xx FADC, c.LP, c.MP xx LP roll xx FADC, c.MP xx HK flipkick (250+160+70+96+25+40+36+20+20=717stun)
——————–
Vega counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack (trade), j.HP, s.MP xx MP roll xx FADC, c.MP xx LK flipkick, EX flipkick (250+160+70+96+50+60+45=731stun)
Vega counterhit j.HP, s.MP xx MP roll xx FADC, c.MP xx LK flipkick, EX flipkick (250+100+128+70+90+75=713stun)
Vega counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack (trade), j.HP, s.MP xx MP roll xx FADC, c.MP xx EX flipkick (250+160+70+96+50+100=726stun)
Vega counterhit j.HP, s.MP xx MP roll xx FADC, c.MP xx EX flipkick (250+100+128+70+150=698stun)
——————–
Vega counterhit backward j.HP, LP roll xx FADC, c.LP, c.MP xx LP roll xx FADC, c.MP xx LK flipkick, EX flipkick (250+120+40+70+72+50+60+45=707stun)
Vega counterhit backward j.HP, LP roll xx FADC, c.LP, c.MP xx LP roll xx FADC, c.MP xx EX flipkick (250+120+40+70+72+50+100=702stun)
Vega counterhit backward j.HP, LP roll xx FADC, c.MP xx LK flipkick, EX flipkick (250+120+80+105+90=645stun)
Vega counterhit backward j.HP, LP roll xx FADC, c.MP xx EX flipkick (250+120+80+175=625stun)
——————–
Vega counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack (trade), j.HP, s.MP xx MP roll xx FADC, s.HK (250+160+70+96+100=676stun)
Vega counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack (trade), j.HP, s.HP, c.HP (250+160+70+120=600stun)
Vega counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack (trade), j.HP, c.HP (250+160+140=550stun)
ShaXan: Yeah i always look for an extra bar combo when possible, but for example it was out of reach in Vega’s case. I’m not sure about El Fuerte’s Taunt ducking the lowest, but lots of other characters have equivalent counterhit meaty setups. That fireball setup was the last thing i added to the combo. The reason for picking El Fuerte is because his hitbox allows the most consecutive LK Hurricane Kick reps.
Numsigmernen: Losing his mask boosts his attack damage (but not stun output), and that was the one Vega combo with damage as the main focus.
Ah, good call, completely forgot about the damage boost, but that ending is still really cool. Which reminds me of a question… sorry for going off-topic, but do you know the actual, exact consequences of losing/throwing the mask? Some people say the defense reduction is temporary (and then some say this defense effect only happens when throwing the mask), but that’s not what the training mode shows, at least on vanilla SF4.
Losing the mask increases his damage output by 10% while making him take 25% extra damage from opponents’ attacks. I’ve never seen anything to suggest that it’s temporary. But if someone’s making that claim, it’s easy enough for them to prove it with a quick video clip.
Okay transcript’s fully written up. If anything’s missing, don’t be afraid to ask.
There’s one interesting/strange thing i didn’t mention regarding Vega. The neutral non-grab version of EX Flying Barcelona Attack does 50dmg/50stun on the first hit and 90dmg/100stun on the second hit with his arms spread out. But if you hold a direction and miss the grab, then it hits once and does 50dmg/50stun with his arms spread out.
I tested this against Abel’s command grab which is invincible to throws, and Vega never hit twice while holding a direction. So i think attempting (and missing) an Izuna Drop makes Vega do an alternate version of that dive attack which only hits once and inflicts 50dmg/50stun.
His super works similarly too. The grab attempt actually has a huge active window. You can see him start the dive attack but if you get anywhere near the opponent, he’ll grab them. If you miss by a mile then he’ll do a single-hit version of the dive attack worth only 100 damage. By comparison, the neutral version is 4 hits for 60+60+60+100 damage.
Incidentally, i stumbled onto some proof that the two stage corners are slightly different. Sakura’s LK Hurricane Kick will cross over crouching Dan in the right corner but not in the left corner. It doesn’t matter whether you’re using 1P or 2P Sakura, and it works in both directions midscreen.
The crossup LK Hurricane Kick shown in the video works in both corners after crouching crumple stun (against certain opponents).
This is also evident with Gouken’s cl.hp xx hk flip > dive kick. I think that it crosses up on the right but not the left, kind of like Sakura’s lk tatsu. I don’t know if it still happens in super, but in vanilla it does.
1:07 was the coolest thing I’ve ever seen with a fireball.
Sweet, i finally broke 20 hits with Vega. Kinda had a light bulb go off two days after i uploaded this episode. I’ve already recorded it so it’ll go in the DVD.
counterhit lvl1 Focus Attack vs Rose far s.LK, crossup j.HP, s.HP (one hit) xx HP roll (LP Soul Spark interrupt), c.MP xx LP roll xx FADC, c.LP, c.MP xx LP roll xx FADC, c.LP, c.MP xx LP roll (KO), vertical j.HK
The trick to getting position is using Vega’s backdash instead of his backward jump, because his backward jump is terrible for covering distance while his backdash is above average. The crossup j.HP is important too because his vertical j.HP can’t reach after that counterhit lvl1 Focus Attack trade and his forward jump can’t make it over LP Soul Spark coming from behind.
Vega can only do one move after that HP roll trade because he ends up noticeably farther than he does after FADC. I kinda wanted to use c.LP, c.LK instead of one of those c.LP, c.MP links for the sake of variety, but c.MP causes more impact freeze which is necessary for charge time after FADC.
Btw i happened to find that Vega can do PPP/KKK backflips after KO. It’s strange because it means he can execute stuff like c.MP xx backflip after KO.