As some of you may have heard, i’ve been working on a PASBR balance patch with the extremely talented crew at Santa Monica Studio. In implementing these changes and prioritizing bugs to fix, we incorporated as much of the community’s feedback as possible.
Hopefully the end result is a more fun and balanced experience for the entire roster. Without further ado, here is the complete changelist for v1.12 of PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale!
General Changes
• Isaac’s alternate “Engineering R.I.G.” costume and Zeus’ alternate “Young Zeus” costume have been unlocked.
• Every character’s throw attempts have been standardized to 9 startup frames, 3 active frames, and 18 recovery frames, with the exception of Isaac, Kat, and Ratchet.
• The minimum effective range of throws has been increased to 1 meter (previously 0.75m) for all characters except Parappa, Sackboy, and Toro.
• In online matches, jumping out of an opponent’s throw attempt is now resolved through the throw clash system.
• Every character’s air dodge has been standardized to 27 invincible frames followed by 9 vulnerable frames (previously 29 invincible plus 7 vulnerable).
• Every character’s directional rolls have been standardized to 18 invincible frames followed by 16 vulnerable frames, with the exception of Fat Princess, Spike, and Zeus.
• Characters can no longer perform actions for 3 frames after landing from air idle.
• Characters can no longer double jump during down tech.
• Landing during down tech or down tech canceled into air dodge now triggers the same recovery as landing during an attack.
• Getting hit in the air no longer renews a character’s double jump ability.
• All timed transformation Level 2 Supers can now be ended manually by pressing L2.
• The AP eject formula has been refined to drain a higher percentage of AP orbs at low levels and a lower percentage of AP orbs at high levels. Heavy damage is calculated as follows:
0.0667 × (AP – 150) + 50,
0.1333 × AP,
if 150 < AP < 600
if AP ≥ 600
◦ Medium damage is simply 67% of the Heavy value, and Light is simply 33% of Heavy.
◦ (Previously, AP eject amounts were calculated using fixed percentages: 3/5/10% for items and 10/12.5/15% for throws.)
• Throws have been grouped into two general categories:
◦ Throws that cause eject or flatten reactions eject Heavy amounts of AP orbs.
◦ Throws which act as combo starters eject Light amounts of AP orbs.
◦ Jak’s Up Throw and Sweet Tooth’s Up Throw eject Medium amounts of AP orbs.
• Throws, items, level hazards, and other AP eject attacks now produce 50% more orbs during 2X AP Overtime, 100% more orbs during 3X AP Overtime, and 150% more orbs during 4X AP Overtime. AP multipliers no longer increase the value of individual orbs.
• Explosion radii of all mines have been standardized to 0.375 meters, explosion durations have been standardized to 8 frames, and maximum lifetimes have been standardized to 5 seconds.
• Double-tapping L2 now causes characters to eject 50 AP as orbs while taunting.
• All character-specific combo tutorials have been revised in light of the following changes.
Big Daddy
• Air F+Square armor amount has been increased to 21 AP (previously 11).
• U+Circle recovery has been reduced by 2 frames.
• D+Circle and air D+Circle ice mine duration has been increased to 150 frames (previously 96 ground and 114 air).
• Forward Throw and Up Throw recoveries have been reduced by 7 frames.
• Up Throw can now be canceled into U+Circle.
• Level 2 Super no longer allows rolling or air dodging, no longer remains invincible during recovery, and duration has been shortened to 6.5 seconds (previously 7 sec).
• Big Daddy’s reaction volume has been extended slightly further downward during common launch reactions.
Cole MacGrath
• Second air neutral Square hit volume has been enlarged by 25%.
• F+Circle recovery has been increased to 23 frames (previously 20).
• Air U+Circle ice platform is now destroyed when interrupted during startup.
• Air D+Circle recovery has been increased to 27 frames (previously 24).
• Level 1 Super hit volume has been lowered to 1 meter above ground (previously 2.25m).
Dante
• Second neutral Square moves slightly further forward to prevent whiffing after the first neutral Square connects at maximum range.
• Third neutral Square now generates 15 AP (previously 10).
• Successful neutral Circle and air neutral Circle counters can be canceled into Triangle attacks.
• Air neutral Circle hit volume now covers the area slightly below Dante.
• U+Circle and air U+Circle now generate AP evenly across all hits and final hit volume has been enlarged by 17%.
• D+Circle projectile durability has been increased to 15 AP (previously 5) and air D+Circle projectile durability has been increased to 10 AP (previously 5).
• Level 1 Super startup has been increased to 35 frames (previously 30).
• Level 1 Super can be canceled into Triangle attacks for 15 frames after the fireball is thrown.
• Level 2 Super can turn around properly during the first 5 frames of activation and no longer remains invincible during recovery.
Nathan Drake
• U+Square and air U+Square explosion timers have been reduced to 2 seconds (previously 2.5 sec).
• Neutral Triangle -> D+Circle now extends the initiation period of Drake’s cover wall to 25 frames (normally 20).
• Up Throw recovery has been reduced by 13 frames, and Drake can jump an additional 10 frames prior.
Emmett Graves
• Third U+Square recovery has been reduced to 33 frames (previously 36).
• Kinetic Rifle F+Triangle now generates 5 AP per shot (previously 3+3+4).
• MAW Launcher neutral Triangle recovery has been increased to 29 frames (previously 27), increasing the total duration to 42 frames (previously 40).
• Union Shotgun neutral Triangle recovery has been increased to 32 frames (previously 28), increasing the total duration to 42 frames (previously 40).
• Union Shotgun F+Triangle, air F+Triangle, U+Triangle, air U+Triangle, D+Triangle, and air D+Triangle active periods have been extended to 3 frames (previously 1).
• Union Shotgun air D+Triangle recovery has been reduced by 20 frames to match air F+Triangle and air U+Triangle.
• MAW Launcher and Union Shotgun discard timing has been standardized, in many cases occurring 3-6 frames earlier.
• Ground weapon discard animation can now be canceled into R1 bunker interact and landing during air weapon discard no longer triggers air attack landing state.
• Forward Throw recovery has been reduced by 7 frames.
• Level 2 Super startup has been reduced to 1 frame (previously 4).
Evil Cole
• Second air neutral Square hit volume has been enlarged by 25%.
• Fully charged neutral Circle and air neutral Circle punch startup has been increased to 13 frames (previously 10). (All other versions remain unchanged at 12 frames startup from idle or 6 frames startup from charge windup.)
• Level 1 Super startup has been increased to 23 frames (previously 20).
Fat Princess
• Air neutral Square startup has been increased to 11 frames (previously 8).
• D+Square recovery has been reduced by 1 frame and reverse swing now causes a light reaction.
• U+Triangle now remains on the ground for the first 10 frames of startup.
• Neutral Circle, air neutral Circle, U+Circle, and air U+Circle explosion radius has been reduced to 1.25 meters (previously 1.75m) and explosion duration has been reduced to 8 frames (previously 14).
• D+Circle and air D+Circle explosion duration has been increased to 5 frames (previously 2).
• Up Throw recovery has been reduced by 2 frames.
• Directional rolls have been shortened to 18 invincible frames followed by 19 vulnerable frames (previously 18 invincible plus 22 vulnerable).
• Level 1 Super can no longer be performed while an assist is on screen.
• Level 2 Super activation period has been reduced by 2 frames and duration has been shortened to 6 seconds (previously 7 sec).
• Level 2 Super ground attack can now turn around during the first 3 frames of startup.
Heihachi Mishima
• Air neutral Square now generates 20 AP (previously 15) and the stagger kneel reaction caused by the second hit has been shortened to 40 frames (normally 50).
• Air D+Square now generates 20 AP (previously 15), causes a slam-down bounce reaction, and hit volume has been extended 0.5 meters beyond Heihachi’s fist.
• F+Triangle follow-up hit volume has been extended 0.25 meters downward to hit short characters consistently.
• U+Triangle recovery has been increased by 3 frames, making it -7 on block.
• D+Circle -> Square becomes a guard crush attack when performed with full D+Circle Raijin charge.
Isaac Clarke
• Neutral Square now generates 5 AP per shot (previously 10) and recovery time has been standardized across all states.
• F+Triangle, air F+Triangle, U+Triangle, air U+Triangle, and air D+Triangle reaction lengths have been standardized.
• F+Circle recovery has been increased to 20 frames (previously 11) and air F+Circle now begins descending after 40 frames (previously 32).
• F+Circle can now be canceled into F+Triangle after a successful hit.
• F+Circle and air F+Circle blade now reflects off all walls and level boundaries.
• Throw attempt timing has been readjusted to 9 startup frames, 3 active frames, and 23 recovery frames. (Projectile sensor stays active from frame 4 to frame 20.)
• Level 1 Super cost has been increased to 150 AP (previously 125).
• Level 1 Super startup has been increased to 40 frames (previously 35).
• Level 2 Super cost has been increased to 400 AP (previously 325).
• Level 2 Super startup has been increased to 20 frames (previously 14).
• Level 3 Super duration has been shortened to 11 seconds (previously 12 sec).
Jak and Daxter
• Neutral Square and air neutral Square now generate 35 AP (previously 30), with Jak’s primary strikes gaining 30 AP while Daxter’s strikes gain 5 AP (previously 26+4).
• F+Square now generates 10 AP (previously 5), recovery has been reduced to 29 frames (previously 31), and can be canceled into U+Circle.
• Air F+Square -> Square timing has been readjusted, punch hit volume has been enlarged by 50%, and turning is enabled during the first 3 frames of punch startup.
• U+Square now remains on the ground for the first 14 frames of startup, and can be moved slightly further forward during the first 5 frames of startup.
• Air U+Square can now be canceled into air neutral Square and air F+Square with similar timing to ground U+Square, but only after a successful hit.
• F+Triangle now generates 5 AP per shot (previously 6).
• U+Triangle and air U+Triangle now generate 10 AP (previously 10), startup has been reduced to 20 frames (previously 24), and explosion radius has been reduced to 1.5 meters (previously 1.65m).
• Neutral Circle and air neutral Circle drone durability has been increased to 11 AP (previously 1), and the drone now bounces off walls and level bounds instead of exploding on contact.
• U+Circle now generates 10 AP (previously 5).
• D+Circle and air D+Circle projectiles can no longer be reflected or absorbed, and uncharged explosion hit volumes have been enlarged by 20%.
• Forward Throw and Down Throw recoveries have been reduced by 7 frames.
• Up Throw can now be canceled into air F+Square.
Kat
• Neutral Square recovery has been increased by 2 frames, making it -5 on block.
• Second neutral Square recovery has been increased by 6 frames, making it -9 on block.
• Third neutral Square recovery has been increased by 9 frames, making it -15 on block.
• U+Square recovery has been increased by 2 frames, making it -20 on block.
• Neutral Triangle now has 10 additional frames of recovery when it doesn’t register a successful hit, making it -15 on block.
• D+Triangle -> Square recovery has been increased by 5 frames, making it -12 on block.
• D+Triangle no longer retains respawn invincibility.
• Air neutral Circle debris summon now begins descending after 10 frames (previously 65).
• Gravity Shift air dash and wall stand dismount can no longer be canceled into air dodge.
• Wall stand duration has been reduced to 2 seconds (previously 4).
• Level 1 Super can no longer be performed during neutral Circle debris heave cooldown.
Kratos
• Neutral Square recovery has been increased by 1 frame, making it -5 on block. (Second neutral Square recovery remains unchanged at -10 on block.)
• Third neutral Square now generates 25 AP (previously 30) and recovery has been increased by 9 frames, making it -18 on block.
• Air neutral Square and air F+Square now require a successful hit to be canceled into double jump.
• Third air neutral Square now generates 25 AP (previously 30).
• U+Square recovery has been increased by 3 frames, making it -12 on block.
• D+Square recovery has been increased by 6 frames, making it -12 on block. (Second D+Square recovery remains unchanged at -10 on block.)
• Neutral Triangle recovery has been increased by 11 frames, making it -12 on block.
• D+Triangle recovery has been reduced by 10 frames to match the air version, making it -23 on block.
Nariko
• After neutral Square Key Pose, secondary neutral Square sequence now generates 30 AP total and consistently causes a stagger kneel reaction.
• Third air neutral Square now generates 25 AP (previously 30).
• After F+Square Key Pose, secondary F+Square sequence opener recovery has been reduced to 48 frames (previously 51).
• Square attack Key Poses can now be canceled into F+Triangle.
• Air U+Triangle can now be canceled into air attacks on frame 42 (previously 43).
• D+Triangle now generates 10 AP (previously 20) and combos reliably into neutral Square from maximum range.
• Air D+Triangle now causes a mini-launch lift reaction against both grounded and airborne opponents, but can only be performed once per jump.
• U+Circle recovery has been reduced to 39 frames (previously 47).
• Forward Throw now causes a mini-launch lift reaction and can be canceled into U+Triangle.
• Forward Throw and Up Throw commands have been swapped to match the reactions they cause more intuitively.
• Level 1 Super cost has been reduced to 125 AP (previously 150).
• Level 2 Super cost has been increased to 400 AP (previously 325).
• Level 2 Super activation attack startup has been increased to 15 frames (previously 2).
• Level 2 Super initial hit volume length has been reduced to 5 meters (previously 6m) and shifted slightly forward, so most of the reduction affects the area behind Nariko.
• Level 2 Super activation attack now causes a full launch reaction.
• Level 3 Super duration has been shortened to 14 seconds (previously 15 sec).
Parappa
• Neutral Square sequence now generates 40 AP total (previously 43).
• U+Square startup has been increased to 11 frames (previously 9).
• D+Square hit volume has been extended 0.25 meters forward to connect more consistently after neutral Square.
• D+Square can be canceled into F+Square 4 frames prior to normal recovery.
• F+Triangle recovery has been reduced by 5 frames, making it -7 on block.
Col. Mael Radec
• Neutral Square hit volume has been extended 0.25 meters downward to hit short characters more consistently.
• Second neutral Square hit volume has been enlarged by 40% and can now be canceled into D+Circle.
• Second air neutral Square hit volume has been enlarged by 50% and recovery has been reduced to 21 frames (previously 24).
• U+Square recovery has been reduced to 23 frames (previously 26).
• D+Square now generates 20 AP (previously 10) and causes a stagger drop reaction.
• Up Throw recovery has been reduced by 3 frames.
• Level 2 Super startup has been reduced to 25 frames (previously 30).
Raiden
• Fourth neutral Square and fifth air neutral Square now generate 25 AP (previously 30).
• Air D+Triangle landing can now be canceled into attacks after 5 frames, or blocking and jumping after 10 frames, but movement and supers are prohibited for the full 20 frames.
• Air neutral Circle counter now causes a mini-launch lift reaction.
• F+Circle -> B+Square now has a 5-frame cancel delay, and F+Circle can be canceled into D+Square with the same timing.
• Level 1 Super startup has been increased to 32 frames (previously 26) and recovery has been increased to 70 frames (previously 64).
• Level 1 Super no longer allows turning after the first 5 frames, but movement is enabled after Raiden begins spinning.
• Level 2 Super no longer allows blocking, rolling, or air dodging, no longer remains invincible during recovery, and duration has been shortened to 6.5 seconds (previously 7 sec).
• Level 2 Super activation EMP stun can be reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds by rapidly mashing inputs, and Circle attack stun can be similarly reduced from 1.5 seconds to 1 second.
Ratchet and Clank
• Air neutral Square, air F+Square, and air U+Square now require a successful hit to be canceled into double jump.
• U+Square startup has been reduced to 14 frames (previously 16).
• Air neutral Triangle regains fall gravity after 10 frames (previously 1) and recovery has been increased to 25 frames (previously 20).
Sackboy
• Neutral Triangle and air neutral Triangle serve now causes a mini-launch lift reaction with 14 frames of startup followed by 7 active frames, generating 10 AP. (Projectile startup remains unchanged at 40 frames.)
• Air D+Triangle checkpoint placement is permitted only when Sackboy has a double jump available.
• U+Circle and air U+Circle startup has been increased to 12 frames (previously 7) and bouncepad is now destroyed when interrupted during startup.
• Level 3 Super now begins with a 70-frame taunt to give the helpless bubbles a head start.
Sir Daniel
• Second neutral Square hit volume has been enlarged by 25% and can now be canceled into F+Square.
• Third neutral Square now generates 25 AP (previously 20).
• Shielded F+Square now gains 21 AP of armor after 8 frames of startup, lasting until the quick sword thrust begins or until the fully charged sword thrust’s active period ends.
• D+Square now generates 20 AP per hit (previously 10) during the first spin.
• Air D+Square startup has been reduced to 21 frames (previously 26).
• F+Triangle causes less pushback on impact without the Golden Shield, allowing Sir Daniel to follow up with neutral Square midscreen.
• Shielded F+Triangle armor amount has been increased to 21 AP (previously 11) and turning is briefly enabled after a successful hit.
• D+Triangle startup has been reduced to 15 frames (previously 21).
• Air D+Triangle now activates a small hit volume near Sir Daniel’s feet after 31 frames of startup, causing a light reaction and generating 5 AP. The hammer smash hit volume has been extended 0.5 meters backward.
• F+Circle now causes a twitch reaction upon contact with opponents, generating an additional 5 AP.
• Up Throw recovery has been reduced by 10 frames.
• Down Throw recovery has been reduced by 5 frames.
• Level 1 Super cost has been reduced to 100 AP (previously 125).
• Level 2 Super now creates a 1 meter by 1 meter hit volume around the Chalice of Souls, active for 4 frames starting when the projectiles appear.
Sly Cooper
• Neutral Circle and air neutral Circle counter attack recovery has been increased by 4 frames, making it -2 on block.
• U+Circle now reflects projectiles during frames 9-24 while hopping into the barrel only, and air U+Circle reflects projectiles during frames 17-30 only.
• U+Circle barrel exit now requires a successful or blocked hit to be canceled into air attacks, double jump, and hover.
• D+Circle explosion now launches opponents 10% higher.
• Up Throw recovery has been reduced by 2 frames.
• L1 invisibility now reduces Sly’s movement speed by 25% and his transparency level decreases from 90% to 67% after 2 seconds.
• Level 1 Super no longer becomes invincible at any point during recovery (previously invincible during frames 34-57).
Spike
• Air F+Square charge requirement has been increased to 20 frames (previously 15).
• Charged U+Triangle and air U+Triangle now generate 30 AP (previously 20) and cause an eject tornado reaction.
• Neutral Circle now causes a stagger kneel reaction on the first hit, followed by a stagger drop reaction on the second hit. Quick dash recovery has been increased by 2 frames, making it -7 on block. Fully charged dash now generates 30 AP total (previously 25) and guard crushes while running forward.
• Air neutral Circle timing has been readjusted to combo properly and the first hit now generates 5 AP (previously 4).
• Up Throw now causes a full launch reaction and recovery has been increased by 2 frames.
• Directional rolls have been shortened to 18 invincible frames followed by 13 vulnerable frames.
Sweet Tooth
• Neutral Square can now be canceled into U+Square, and both neutral Square hit volumes have been enlarged slightly to juggle more consistently after U+Square.
• U+Square hit volumes have been extended 0.1 meters forward.
• D+Square secondary gust now generates 20 AP (previously 10) and causes a crumple reaction to match the initial stomp.
• Air D+Square recovery has been reduced by 1 frame, making it -4 on block.
• Air neutral Triangle now allows movement while spinning, similar to the ground version.
• F+Triangle hit volume has been extended 0.25 meters forward during its 3rd and 4th active frames.
• Air D+Triangle hit volume has been extended 0.25 meters backward to cover the entire muzzle flash.
• F+Circle and air F+Circle molotov bottles now generate 10 AP (previously 5) from a direct hit.
• Forward Throw recovery has been reduced by 5 frames.
• Up Throw can now be canceled into Level 2 Super.
• Level 2 Super missile maximum speed has been increased by 50% and turning control has been improved.
Toro Inoue
• Torobi neutral Triangle and air neutral Triangle now generate 20 AP (previously 26 and 36) and can be canceled into double jump after a successful hit.
• Torobi air F+Triangle final hit volume has been enlarged by 25%.
• Oni F+Triangle can now be canceled into Level 2 Super upon landing from the first spin.
• Oni air D+Triangle landing can now be canceled into block 5 frames prior to normal recovery.
• Forward Throw and Up Throw recoveries have been reduced by 3 frames.
Zeus
• Air U+Square hit volume has been extended 0.5 meters downward and recovery has been reduced to 15 frames (previously 19).
• Charged neutral Triangle hit volume thickness has been doubled to hit short characters consistently.
• D+Circle and air D+Circle hit volumes have been extended further downward to cover Zeus’ entire body, similar to their charged versions.
• Charged D+Circle lightning bolt now generates 20 AP (previously 10).
• Forward Throw recovery has been reduced by 9 frames.
• Up Throw now causes a slam-down bounce reaction and recovery has been reduced by 5 frames.
• Down Throw recovery has been reduced by 6 frames.
• Directional rolls have been adjusted to 21 invincible frames followed by 13 vulnerable frames. (Previously Zeus was able to remain completely invincible while evading.)
Items
• Leech Beam now siphons 100 AP (previously 140) in 4 AP increments (previously 5).
• Fusion Bomb bouncing Nitroballs now eject Medium amounts of AP orbs (previously Light).
Miscellaneous Bug Fixes
• Online synchronization after Infinite Avoidance state has been improved.
• PS Vita version now ignores D-Pad inputs while holding opposite directions on the L-Stick and D-Pad, to match PS3 version behavior.
• Environment Stun reactions can no longer be thrown, which prevents inescapable Ratchet Suck Cannon loops on certain stages.
• Cole’s AP gain timing during neutral Triangle Overload has been corrected.
• Dante can no longer turn around mid-dash when F+Circle carries him off a ledge.
• Dante’s F+Circle and air F+Circle can now be canceled into B+Square and air B+Square, respectively.
• Drake’s Up Throw no longer counts toward the Infinite Avoidance limit.
• Drake’s lvl3 super Descendants can no longer be thrown when dizzy.
• Emmett’s air U+Circle and air D+Circle supply bunkers no longer fail to appear if summoned while landing.
• Emmett can no longer interact with supply bunkers while throwing, being thrown, or using Circle button moves. However, Square and Triangle attacks can still be canceled by pressing R1 (near supply bunkers).
• Emmett and Kat’s block stun durations have been standardized to 15 frames to match the rest of the cast.
• Isaac’s lvl1 super reticule stability has been greatly improved in online games.
• Isaac and Raiden’s air attack landing states have been standardized, preventing them from performing supers for 11 frames (previously 5).
• Jak’s U+Square now cancels into air F+Square with consistent timing in both directions.
• Jak’s air Triangle and air Circle attacks now transition properly to corresponding ground states when used immediately before landing.
• Jak’s charged D+Circle is now considered airborne 5 frames after the button is released.
• Jak can now use items correctly after pickup during Blue Mod gun stance.
• Jak now reacts properly to the Sonic Rift item and his own lvl2 super.
• Jak’s lvl2 super explosion hit volume has been extended 0.25 meters downward to reach ground level and clear out mines.
• Jak, Parappa, and Sir Daniel no longer negate pushback from multi-hit attacks while in block stun reaction.
• Kat’s neutral Circle and air neutral Circle debris online desync issues have been greatly reduced.
• Kat can now perform backward diagonal air dashes without turning around beforehand.
• Kat decelerates properly upon landing from air dashes while attacking or holding items.
• Kat’s crumple forward reaction timing has been standardized.
• Nariko’s neutral Circle and air neutral Circle now register all of their AP on the last hit, to trigger AP burst more consistently online.
• Nariko’s lvl2 super activation and cannon spin attacks can no longer be blocked.
• Nariko can no longer perform air attacks after her lvl3 super timer expires.
• Parappa and Raiden’s lvl2 supers are no longer considered grounded during air recovery.
• Ratchet’s F+Square and air F+Square wrench no longer hits twice on the way back.
• Ratchet’s air neutral Triangle now transitions properly to corresponding ground states.
• Ratchet’s air attack landing state has been standardized. (Previously Ratchet was able to attack or block immediately upon landing after using air Triangle and air Circle attacks.)
• Sackboy’s neutral Triangle and air neutral Triangle projectiles no longer cause a twitch reaction on impact (previously generating an additional undocumented 10 AP).
• Sackboy can no longer perform ground actions in mid-air during air F+Circle recovery.
• Sly’s air neutral Circle is now considered airborne during recovery.
• Toro’s air stance changes no longer allow canceling into Torobi air neutral Triangle, Oni air F+Triangle, and Oni air U+Triangle multiple times per jump.
• Toro can no longer turn around more than once during lvl1 super and lvl2 super startup.
• Zeus’ D+Circle and air D+Circle startup has been readjusted to always activate hit volumes and lightning bolts, even if the Circle button is released after 1 frame.
• Zeus’ lvl3 super activation now destroys existing Sackboy D+Triangle checkpoints.
• Boots of Hermes, Killer Bees, Leech Beam, and Razor Claws buffs are no longer removed by Infinite Avoidance state.
• Minor VFX timing fixes for Big Daddy’s air Square attacks, Big Daddy’s lvl2 super, Cole’s U+Circle, Dante’s lvl2 super, Emmett’s air Square attacks, Fat Princess’ charged neutral Square, Isaac’s neutral Square, Isaac’s item-equipped double jump, Jak’s lvl2 super, Kat’s U+Circle, Raiden’s air F+Triangle, Raiden’s D+Circle, Ratchet’s lvl1 super, Sir Daniel’s F+Square, Spike’s lvl1 super, Zeus’ D+Circle, LR-3 Railgun aim cancellation, and Murder of Crows projectile.
@lightsage only time I complained about sackboy was to complain about the checkpoint nerf which everyone i have spoken to, even those who dont like fighting sackboy agree it was completely stupid
Hello Maj, first of all, I deeply apologize for all the flak you received concerning the patch, you and SSM did NOT deserve it one bit. I for one am quite thankful for your dedicated work, and overall this patch was very much needed, just disregard all the pointless hate. Yes I guess you could say some things were left in that shouldn’t have been, but I understand that either they just could not be fixed or just simply human error, which I (unlike most people) can easily forgive.
Now that we are off on the right foot, I’d like to talk about Radec strictly for curiosity. I do not expect another patch, as much as I would want one, due to the community’s very poor reaction to it.
So for Radec, here are some thoughts:
1. How do you feel about his F1? I might be a little late to the party regarding Radec stuff, so I apologize if this is a repeated question. Did you ever consider adjusting it by making it a two input move instead of one? I believe before that people said it should be canceled into a dodge, but that seems overtly strong for no reason. I always thought that merely a two button input would greatly benefit the move, rather than some gimmicky idea that would not fit PSASBR standards.
2. The N11 cancel into D3 is freaking awesome!! Considering grab resets no longer exist, this was the perfect way to assess this move in a logical way. *special cookie for Maj*
3. The U1 knife, I always thought it was a rather strict move in terms of actually hitting an aerial opponent, but now that you added the ability to follow up with U2, it makes more sense that you can’t just throw it out like nothing and expect many rewards, so I guess I can’t comment more on that lol.
4. D1 surprise grenade, I was a bit shocked that the hit reaction was changed without the start-up or ending frames being increased, but I’m happy you kept it this way. An idea I originally had (with the original hit reaction in mind) was to make Radec have dodge frames while he was invisible, how would you have thought that could’ve affected him? I wouldn’t change the grenade as is right now, I’m only curious.
5. N2 the machine gun. The move is good for what it is, I just think it’s a tad too much commitment for a 15 AP gaining move. Yes, it is a poke tool, the only problem is the severity of whiffing it when compared to something like Drake’s AK. I always thought maybe a couple frame reduction on the reload could help, or maybe the ability to determine how many shots you can fire based on how long you hold down N2? Max bullets would’ve been three still, but if you could catch yourself whiffing the first or second bullet, you could let go and Radec would go into his reload animation (and of course we’d keep the reload animation as long as it is currently haha).
6. F2, the sniper. Always has been a fine move, my only SLIGHT gripe with it was that the hitbox is a tad wonky. How I mean is the infamous glitch(?) where the sniper looks like it should’ve hit (and when fired, the laser stops at where the opponent is rather than reaching across the stage). Am I to assume because of its properties that this is how it should be? If so that’s completely fine, I just had a small peeve with whiffing it when i felt it should’ve hit.
7. D2, the grenade launcher. I’ve never had a big problem with it’s timed explosion, however, I kinda felt that the distance the grenade travels is a tad overkill. Honestly, making it travel a shorter distance is both a buff in 1v1 and a nerf in FFA (which seems okay with me). You’ll see most opponents just walk right through it, and it can be hard for Radec to set up any kind of barrier against someone. In 1v1, a shorter distance could help cover him, and in FFA he would have to be closer to the battle to have it work. And I’ve kinda felt the actual explosion of the grenade doesn’t really match with the hitbox but maybe that’s just me. What are your opinions on his grenade launcher?
8. N3, the bolt gun. Literally my only problem with this was sticking it to a wall and its explosion being extremely puny lol seems rather unnecessary to want to stick it to the wall when maybe it could’ve been buffed as a better tactic? Any thoughts on his bolt gun? Everything else from start-up frames/timed explosion etc is perfectly fine to me.
9. aD1, when playing through the patch and its new hit reaction, I honestly would’ve liked the aerial version’s hit reaction to stay as it originally was, I haven’t found much use in the opponent getting blown away. Technically I guess that suits his character more as a get off me type person, but I like keeping them close to follow up with a combo easier.
10. aN2, I’ve had a love hate relationship with Radec continuing to fire when he lands on the ground, it can leave him severely open to attacks, but at the same time he can surprise his opponents with the follow up, but I’m indecisive. Any thoughts?
11. His Level 1 super. I greatly appreciate EVERYTHING you did with his Level 2, the only thing that has thrown me off since the beginning as Radec is the Level 1’s hitbox. The explosion without a doubt does not match the hitbox haha I would’ve felt maybe adjusting it a tad so it reaches out a little more could help with Radec’s overall ability to kill. Was this left intentionally?
12. What is your current stance on him as a character? Could you see him adjusted in a certain way if you were ever able to return for another patch? Any particular things that stood out to you?
Thank you for your time Maj, and once again I greatly appreciate the patch!!
Hi Maj! Always loved your work you’ve done in the FGC including those super pretty amazing EVO vids you did back in 2k9 and 2k10, Ryu is Strong and the Fireball Exhibition. :D
Also as a curious question, who was the designer for Big Daddy’s move list? I really think he or she did imo, the best in terms of making an exciting and enjoyable character to play as since he feels a lot like a mix of T.Hawk and KoF2k2 Ralf, and really would like to know who I should thank! :D
It’s been a month since the patch released and I can say with confidence that 1.12 is WAAAAAAYYYYY better than 1.10 and the best PSA has been. Anyone who says otherwise is lying and they know it or they’re still mad that Isaac and Raiden don’t carry anymore. My main, Raiden, is near perfect after this patch and overall the tier list is a lot closer than 1.10. Sure there are a few problems like Cole, FP Kat, etc not being nerfed enough, Zeus not getting the armor buff, sackboy still being able to 3 stock with L3 and not being able to punish landing lag with a grab online since spamming jump will cause throw clash even when it shouldn’t, but expecting a perfect patch would be silly. Too many people whining, LES with his usual walls of obnoxious text, etc.
Thanks Maj and everyone else who worked on the patch.
http://i.imgur.com/Bpc32ZU.jpg
KMart0002: Thanks for the kind words, sir. I’ll try to answer as many of your questions as i can, but there isn’t much to say about some things.
I think Radec’s F+Square is fine as is. It sucks as a poke, but it was never meant to be a poke. It’s meant to be a combo extender or finisher like Sweet Tooth’s D+Square. If you break it up into two moves, the knife part either has to be better or worse than Radec’s neutral Square. If it’s worse, then what’s the point? If it’s better, well, Radec’s whole design is based on his close range options being kind of weak, so this would go completely against the whole intent behind his neutral Square parameters.
Technically it would be pretty easy to add evade frames to Radec’s D+Square, but that seems weird to me. Unless you categorize it as a teleport – which is a bit of a stretch.
I agree that it’s annoying when Radec’s F+Triangle misses even though the laser sight is clearly touching an opponent. The same thing happens with Ratchet’s neutral Circle. This is primarily caused by the laser beam VFX being a few pixels wide, while the actual hit volume thickness is exactly one pixel. Honestly this kind of stuff irritates the hell out of me, but then again i’m a perfectionist and no game is perfect. Every major game ships with (tens of) thousands of known bugs, and all you can do is prioritize which ones absolutely need to be fixed.
I don’t really have a strong opinion about Radec’s D+Triangle. I agree it’s hard to use, and making it explode sooner would certainly help in that regard.
Not sure what you mean about his air D+Square. That move hasn’t changed in a long time, as far as i know. I thought about giving it the same stagger reaction as ground D+Square’s new buff, but that seemed too irritating.
As far as Radec’s neutral Triangle, i think it’s fine as is. I feel the same way about Jak’s F+Triangle. I don’t think a character should win or lose based on the effectiveness of a move like that. Personally i think those types of moves should have limited situational usefulness, because making them too good kind of dumbs down the game.
His lvl1 super is a tough call because it can easily become overpowered, as anyone who remembers the beta can tell you. Projectile lvl1 supers are dangerous in general. I think it’s in a good place right now, in terms of being useful without being overwhelming.
Radec is missing something, but nobody’s been able to identify exactly what that thing is – or how to fix it. For what it’s worth, i don’t really think defense is Radec’s problem, because he has pretty decent zoning and the few attacks he has trouble dealing with are moves that everyone has trouble dealing with. So the missing ingredient is probably an offensive tool or adjustment.
One extra buff that might’ve helped is some sort of consistent throw confirm into lvl2 super. Maybe allowing his Up Throw or the first hit of his Forward Throw to be canceled directly into lvl2 super. Or maybe allowing the first hit of his Forward Throw to be canceled into F+Square, although that’d be much trickier to implement without causing some weird bugs. Anyway i don’t know if this is the answer, but it would probably be a step in the right direction.
dominoSNK: Thank you sir, i’m glad you liked those videos. They took a lot of time and effort!
Big Daddy’s original combat designer was Dean Rymer (with some last-minute tweaks by Ed Ma). He definitely turned into one of my favorite characters in the game, so i think Dean did a great job!
RevolverRoden: Thank you sir, much appreciated. I still feel bad about Zeus, but like i mentioned earlier, it was always going to take more than one patch to fix him all the way.
crashbfan: Hmm, i’ve thought about it for a while, and i still don’t know how to respond to that photo. What kind of reply would make you feel better?
Hello Maj. Don’t know if you still come here, but I have a question. This is something that has been bothering me for a while (since the game debuted)- What is it about Jak’s character that makes him sluggish? Everytime I play as other characters (Spike, Radec, Kratos, Ratchet, Coles, etc) and come back to Jak, he has this sluggish feel to him, which also makes him more punishable than those who don’t feel like that. I’m not a game designer, so I don’t know exactly where the issue lies, but it seems at it’s most noticeable when Jak jumps.. feels like there’s some delay or something. Every other character I’ve played with felt naturally smooth, especially Emmett, where as in his case he’s actually quite fast (in running speed and jumping speed) and has a nice good distanced based roll.
I’m not sure, but it could be a lot of things – both functional and aesthetic. In general i think Jak is animated more fluidly than other characters, but that could make him feel slower in some areas.
There shouldn’t be any functional difference between Jak’s jump and other characters. I think those are all standardized except for horizontal movement speed, which is based on the character’s maximum movement speed while running. If you notice other differences, my guess would be that they’re visual and not functional.
As far as being more punishable, that has to do with recovery times on his attacks, right? Jak definitely has more recovery on most of his attacks than some of the characters you mentioned, but that’s mainly due to having more range or the designer/animator deciding that a certain move needed more recovery. He had a few weird oversights like his throw attempt being longer than other characters, but that stuff has been standardized in patches.
The only other thing i can think of that might be non-standard is his turning speed on the ground. I can’t remember if it’s technically possible for those to be different between characters, but Jak’s walk/sprint turn animations are pretty elaborate since they involve Daxter doing cool acrobatic stuff.
Maj, I thought you might be interested in seeing a current 1v1 tier list for the 1.12 patch. I should stress that this list is my opinion, but I think the placements are agreed upon by lots of players (within a reasonable margin of error). Order within lettered groups may not be perfect; the order of the groups themselves is more important.
Top
S: Kat
A+: Kratos
A-: Nariko, Cole, Drake
High
B+: Heihachi, Raiden, Ratchet
B: Dante, Sly, Fat Princess, Parappa
B-: Evil Cole, Jak
Mid
C+: Big Daddy, Emmett,
C: Sir Dan, Sweet Tooth, Sackboy
C-: Isaac, Radec
Low
D: Toro, Spike, Zeus
Kat was singled out as the best character again pretty quickly, and her newly discovered Level 1 confirms have only made things worse. There has been talk of banning her again due to her fantastic MU spread and the fact that she wins almost every tourney where she is legal.
Kratos has a great MU spread, arguably losing only to Dante and Raiden. He does well against Kat and Nariko too which is rare. Nariko, Cole and Drake are amazing characters, but they all have weaknesses that can be exploited by most of the roster and have gotten more manageable over time.
The high tier is very large in this patch, which is great. Heihachi in particular benefits a lot from landing lag and the Air Down Square buff; his Level 2 usually gets 2 kills in 1v1 now. One of the very best Fat Princess players would disagree with me on her placement as he thinks she’s still Top Tier, but I think he is an excellent player who makes her seem better than she is; I think she loses convincingly to Kratos and Nariko, and she can’t claim to strongly beat anyone above her except maybe Drake. Dante is a monster, but some characters can shut him down completely. Cole doesn’t really fear anything Dante does and Emmett destroys Dante because he has absolutely no way to deal with Emmett’s turret.
All of the mid tiers are powerful characters in the right hands, but they really struggle with select characters above them. Big Daddy can lose to Kat’s Air Neutral Triangle alone, Emmett gets torn apart by Sly, Sir Dan and Sackboy get destroyed by Kratos, the list goes on. Still, Big Daddy and Emmett in particular are interesting anti-meta characters who perform surprisingly well against a lot of the high tiers. Isaac started as one of the worst characters in 1.12 but is slowly climbing the tier list; he’s linear, but his projectiles are really good and he can still AP burst from a lot of attacks.
There’s not much to say about the low tiers other than nothing has really changed since 1.10, and they didn’t get the buffs they needed. For the record, I don’t think Zeus needed 20 AP armour; in my opinion there are more interesting ways to buff him, such as exploring the idea of Down Circle charging up his square moves. I think the fact that there are only 3 low tiers is really cool since it implies 21/24 characters are at least somewhat viable. I don’t think Spike and Toro being low tier is necessarily bad either, since they can be pretty annoying to fight; Spike has a lot of traps and Toro is very hard to combo.
Thank you sir, i really appreciate the update and i’m very grateful for those results overall. I feel bad about Kat still being overpowered, but it was difficult to grasp the full extent of her superior capabilities. I was even worried i nerfed her too much, because it seemed like all of her good moves were toned down simultaneously!
In fact, the biggest surprise for me is that Isaac dropped so many spots whereas Kat stayed put. They were nerfed with pretty much the same philosphy and in some ways Kat was nerfed harder. I guess this goes back to how difficult it is to balance ranged characters in this game. They’re extremely sensitive to the slightest changes, much more so than melee-based characters.
Thanks for the additional notes as well. It’s definitely interesting to hear about individual matchups and how they affect the overall meta.
Anyway, i saw that PASBR is being added to the list of free PS Plus games. I hope that brings a lot of new players to the community and revitalizes it for a while. At the very least, it should be easier find matches for a while.
Here’s a thread with my (very slightly updated) list and more detailed explanations if you’re interested. No real differences apart from the high tiers swapping around a bit. http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-All-Stars-Battle/My-1v1-Tier-List/td-p/44382704
Kat’s a tricky one. In all fairness, everything that was so overpowered about her in patch 1.10 WAS nerfed except for Air Side Square. Some would argue Air Neutral Triangle needed a nerf but it’s only problematic in like 2 matchups. Anyway, things like “Neutral Triangle is now -15 on block” look great on paper, but in practice -15 just isn’t disadvantageous enough when Kat has such a small hurtbox and is left in such a good position. Only about half the cast can actually punish that move, and barely any of them get anything worthwhile, whereas she gets a burst or even Level 1 confirm every time she hits with it. Basically her risk/reward ratio still isn’t right. Her main pokes still need some toning down. Her new confirms are nobody’s fault, they weren’t discovered until it was too late, but they definitely don’t help her case. They can be removed pretty easily by making her unable to use her Level 1 super during her “air dash down” landing state (keeping her cool Level 2 confirms using that landing state).
In Isaac’s case he basically had 90% of his scary CQC options toned down or outright removed, turning him into the mid range character he was supposed to be. Ranged characters do tend to be sensitive as we’ve seen many times with Jak, and I guess Isaac was sensitive to his changes because he was being played as if he were a melee character, when that was clearly never meant to be the case.
I don’t know if ranged characters are always more sensitive than melee characters, though; some characters are sensitive to changes because they rely on one or two moves, so when those moves get nerfed the character plummets on tier lists. This occurred with Isaac, because the Force Gun was what tied everything together, so a nerf to that means big trouble for Isaac. Raiden is about as far from a ranged character you can get, but he’d be extremely sensitive to an Air Up Triangle nerf because that move is used in practically all his combos. Kat may have been nerfed pretty heavily, but none of her CQC options (aside from debris -> Level 1) were outright removed unlike Isaac’s.
I’m glad about the game being added to PS Plus. Quick Match has always been pretty lively, but hopefully the competitive scene will see some more interest. If the game keeps trundling along, a PS4 reboot or sequel sometime in the future might not be out of the question, which would be really cool.
I do have something to ask you about Kat actually. When she first came out last year in patch 1.06 or whatever it was, her debris worked perfectly online regardless of who was hosting. Perhaps 1 in 100 matches you’d get the bug where she couldn’t fire it at all, but that was really rare. You never had the bug where her debris fired more slowly than it should (which has been improved in 1.12 but still occurs) until patch 1.10, and it’s weird because nothing was changed about debris. Why did her debris stop working properly in 1.10?