Having investigated SF4 a little further, it’s apparent that the entire combo engine is based on a list of special properties arbitrarily assigned to various moves. In order to predict exactly what will combo into what, we need to put together a comprehensive chart of these traits by testing every attack.
Here’s an incomplete list of specialized attack properties i’ve encountered while experimenting primarily with Ryu, Zangief, El Fuerte, and Ken:
– always creates a juggle state against a grounded opponent
– always creates a juggle state against an airborne opponent
– only creates a juggle state against a non-reeling airborne opponent
– only creates a juggle state against a reeling airborne opponent
– resets the juggle counter without creating a juggle state
– possesses an inherent juggle potential of __ (some integer)
– knocks down on counterhit
– always renders opponents invincible
– renders grounded opponents invincible
– renders airborne opponents invincible
When an opponent gets knocked down through conventional means, they can only be juggled by an attack with a juggle potential of one or greater. After they’ve been juggled once, they can only be juggled by an attack with juggle potential of two or greater, and so on. Generally whenever an attack creates a juggle state, it also resets the juggle counter.
For example, the first hit of Ken’s MP Shoryuken has no inherent juggle potential and knocks down on counterhit. The second hit possesses an inherent juggle potential of one.
The first hit of Ken’s HP Shoryuken only creates a juggle state against a non-reeling airborne opponent, knocks down on counterhit which satisfies the airborne condition for creating a juggle state, and has no inherent juggle potential. The second hit only creates a juggle state against a reeling airborne opponent and has no inherent juggle potential. The third hit has a juggle potential of one.
The first hit of Ken’s EX Shoryuken has no inherent juggle potential. The second hit has an inherent juggle potential of one and resets the juggle counter without creating a juggle state. The third hit probably has a juggle potential of one, but might have a juggle potential of two. The fourth hit probably has a juggle potential of two. At least one of the last two hits has a juggle potential of two, because EX Shoryuken juggles once after anti-air MP Shoryuken hits twice.
The first hit of Ryu’s j.MP always creates a juggle state against an airborne opponent and has no inherent juggle potential. The second hit of Ryu’s j.MP has an inherent juggle potential of one.
Ryu’s Shinkuu Hadoken has an inherent juggle potential of five and the last hit renders grounded opponents invincible. Ryu’s Metsu Hadoken has an inherent juggle potential of eight and the last hit renders grounded opponents invincible.
All normal moves render airborne opponents invincible. As far as i can tell, all sweeps always render opponents invincible.
Anyway this is clearly too much information for me to compile alone, so it would be nice if everyone contributed their findings. If not, i’ll continue posting whatever i happen to find as i make my way through the cast.
Nice read.
I have read also the part 1 and i want to add something about crumple stun.
Crumple stun beginning is “normal”, The opponent is consider grounded but i don’t know how many times is stay like that. It’s why a normal throw and grounded combo work
Crumple stun ending is different like you said in the part 1 i think. The opponent is consider “airborn” but not completely airborn.
It’s why a normal throw will whiff and it’s why Guile can air throw. It’s why a simple cr lk cause a “reset” (renders airborne opponents invincible).
I think Abel can Skyfall them but i didn’t try yet.
I speak about that because this state is strange. Not the crumple but the mid airborn/ground state.
Example with chun li / Normal Hazan shu don’t knockdown on hit.
It doesn’t knockdown on counter hit too.
So if you do Focus level 2 or 3 – dash forward – fast hazan shu lk. Your opponent will be hit grounded. Here it’s normal.
But if you wait a little, example you do a backdash instead of dash forward
At this moment your opponent is airborne and your Hazan Shu will knockdown your opponent like a sweep ( no quickstand possible)
Hazan shu is not a move which hit airborne so this state is very special because grounded move can hit.
Are there other moves like that ?
And it can be great to talk about the mechanism of the sweep which hit airborne opponent in combo. Viper, Ken and Akuma can do that but why ?
——
It can be great if you can work on the “Freeze engine” in SF4. A friend just ask me some good questions.
Sometimes the game stop.
What that means ?
How can it be useful ?
Does it give advantage ?
The most famous freeze is when you hit someone with a body armor and i read on SRK that :
“If you absorb an attack with a saving attack, you can take action 3F faster than your opponent (you can act during the hitstop of the absorb animation)”
Source SF4 master guide
Actually i don’t think Chun’s Hazanshu is that special. It’s basically like any other non-knockdown special move which knocks down when it hits an airborne opponent. For example Zangief’s green hand and Ken’s Hurricane Kick do the same thing.
If you want to test it against a jumping opponent, use it to hit Dhalsim’s j.LP or another downward extended limb. The only thing special about it is that it seems to cause sweep knockdown like you said, rendering opponents invincible.
I believe Balrog’s headbutt is an arbitrary thing – no matter how high up the opponent is launched (like if you headbutt an extended limb), you can’t hit them with anything except the super or the ultra.
Seems like the same thing with Blanka’s upward roll, but I’m pretty bad at timing the ultra or super off it (anti-air)…Can anyone confirm or deny if he can do anything, even super/ultra off it?
Do any of Balrog’s moves have non-zero juggle potential aside from his super and his ultra? Maybe his headbutt is just a regular knockdown and he has nothing else to juggle with.
There’s gotta be one or two characters who have no inherent juggle potential on any of their moves. Zangief comes pretty close. Everything is zero except EX greenhand which has a juggle potential of one.
I think everyone’s ultra will juggle unless it’s a throw ultra. I think Blanka can only juggle with his super/ultra. Most characters with 2 hit ex moves will still hit twice vs an airborne opponent so they have to have some juggle potential. Fuerte, Blanka, and Boxer are the only ones who don’t have a special that can hit more then once.
Fuerte has that anti-air leg grab. Both the regular and EX versions juggle after his close s.HK which isn’t a free juggle setup. His running air slam has juggle potential as well. And obviously his super.
Blanka’s a little weird. His super/ultra juggle mechanisms might be exceptions. I have a feeling he’ll require a little more testing.
So i guess it’s only Blanka and Balrog who don’t have juggle potential apart from supers/ultras.
I had started looking at this myself, hadn’t noticed there was a post on it in here, it’s nice to see someone else working on this.
I’ve been analysing Ken and a little bit of Guile and Ryu and been calculating how things work with them so far. This post will mostly be about Ken.
There is a Juggle Counter. Depending on what move you do an amount will be added to the counter, which affects the next move.
The count of a move can vary depending on if it launches or if it’s part of the juggle.
Remember, if it doesn’t knock the opponent into the air, it’s not part of the juggle.
Focus Attack only causes juggle state when it hits an aerial opponent, even though a FA can put the opponent in an aerial state, it is not part of the juggle when used on the ground. I need to do a little more analysis.
From here I will refer to Juggle Stage as JS
Example:
With Ken, let’s say you initiate a juggle on an opponent with LP Shoryuken. LP SRK will add +1 to the counter whether it initiates or juggles. LP SRK has no in-juggle potential (I said whether it initiates or juggles before, I’ll explain this in a bit).
The first hit of MP SRK is the same as LP SRK.
The 2nd hit of MP SRK has in-juggle potential at JS1, it will not juggle at JS2 and beyond. It adds +1 to the counter whether it launches or juggles.
The 1st hit of HP SRK is special. It does not launch on it’s own, however if the opponent is considered airborne or is countered with this move it will launch the opponent and will not add anything to the counter. Any move will work after an initiation HP SRK 1st hit. When juggling the 1st hit of HP SRK will add +1 to the counter.
The 2nd hit of HP SRK will initiate a juggle at +1, but when used in a juggle will add nothing to the counter. It does not work in a regular JS, however, if you use it after launching with the 1st hit of HP SRK you will notice it adds nothing to the counter. If you go into training mode and use infinite meter, launch with the 1st hit of HP SRK and you will notice that the 2nd hit can juggle infinitely.
EX SRK 1st hit: +1 initiate, +1 juggle
2nd hit: +1 initiate, +0 juggle, works at JS1
3rd hit: Works at JS1
4th hit: +1 initiate, works at JS2
More coming soon.
After a little analysis on Ryu it appears each hit of his super and ultra counts as +1 juggle.
Each of his SRK is +1 initiate.
His super will hit anything JS5 or lower, once you hit JS6 it will fail, including hits caused by itself.
His ultra will hit anything JS8 or lower, once you hit JS9 it will fail.
So SRK +1, Super +5, Ultra +3, as after this the ultra will refuse to hit.
Another one is EX HDK, each hit is +1.
If you do EX HDK, FADC Ultra you get +2 for the HDK, then +7 from the Ultra, and you’ll notice that the 8th hit will fail because the opponent is now in JS9.
The final hits of the Super and Ultra when used on the ground do not cause juggle, they’re very similar to sweeps.
The first hit of j.MP has +0 initiate.
Some more on Ryu.
EX SRK 2nd hit works up to JS1 and is +1 juggle.
EX HDK works up to JS2 and is +1 juggle on both hits. If you reach JS3 with the 1st hit on EX HDK the 2nd hit will not connect.
I’m trying to work out some stuff with Tatsu but it’s a bit trickier, bear with me.
Correction on the 1st hit of Ken’s EX SRK, it’s +0 on juggle, still +1 on initiate though.
Sorry for the massive amount of comments, I’m hoping all this info will help out though.
I’ve been messing with Ken’s Super for a bit it seems all parts of the Super work as +1 initiate, and every hit except for the very last one is +0 juggle, the last hit being +1 juggle. The super works only up to JS1.
This is really great info, but i think we have somewhat of a language barrier between us. Do you play Capcom vs SNK at all? Even if you don’t, would you please do me a huge favor and read through the Juggle System chapter of jchensor’s CvS Combo and Systems Guide? Most of the SF4 juggle system is based on the same general foundation, so i think it would be much clearer if we stuck to the same naming conventions.
Like you said, we still need to run tons of experiments to iron out the details but this would make it a lot easier for everyone to understand each other. Your “JS1/JS2/etc.” notation is pretty close to what we already use, but the “initiate” stuff is really confusing and i can’t figure out why it’s necessary.
I played very little CvS unfortunately, so I’m giving this a read. I started out using initiate as at one point because of something I originally found but it turned out I was wrong about it.
So if I read this correctly lets take Ken’s HP and EX SRK as examples as each hit has various states.
HP SRK:
The 1st hit has no juggle potential, however if used against an opponent in an aerial state or as a counter, it creates a reeling state without adding anything to the juggle counter. Any move will work when the juggle count is at 0.
The 2nd hit can create a juggle state on it’s own, but has no juggle potential. However if the opponent is reeling with 0 on the juggle counter this move will add nothing to the count.
The 3rd hit has a juggle potential of 1.
EX SRK:
The 1st hit is identical to the 2nd hit of HP SRK.
The 2nd hit has a juggle potential of 1, but will add nothing to the juggle count.
The 3rd hit is most likely identical to the 2nd hit, but because it cannot be cancelled I’m not 100% certain.
The 4th hit has a juggle potential of 2.
Am I on the right track so far? I’m pretty sure I’ve got the data right, it’s just the language I need to pick up on.
I guess you can think of it as keeping the juggle count at 0 if you want, but that seems a little ambiguous to me. We usually call it a “free juggle state,” which means a knockdown state that’s vulnerable to everything except throws.
There’s also regular knockdown state which requires a juggle potential of 1 or more to hit. And of course there’s unharmed state which can be hit by anything and thrown as well. Falling over after crumple stun has basically the same properties are airborne unharmed state, because opponents can be hit by anything as well as thrown.
First hit of HP Shoryuken has no juggle potential, creates a free juggle state against unharmed airborne opponents, and resets the juggle counter. Second hit of HP Shoryuken has no juggle potential, creates a free juggle state against reeling airborne opponents, and resets the juggle counter. Third hit of HP Shoryuken simply has a juggle potential of 1 like you said.
EX Shoryuken is a little different. I think it’s going to require further testing before we figure it out. Originally i thought the first hit of EX Shoryuken was a simple knockdown with 0 juggle potential and that the second hit of EX Shoryuken simply had a juggle potential of 1.
That’s why you can do EX Shoryuken FADC forever, because the second hit can be Focus-canceled, has a juggle potential of 1, and resets the juggle count to zero every time it connects. You can even do it after LP Shoryuken, without ever creating a free juggle state. Furthermore, if you do EX Shoryuken and FADC after either the first or second hits, you don’t get a free juggle. It doesn’t matter if it’s on the ground, anti-air, or counterhit.
However, i guess i was wrong earlier when i said it never creates a free juggle state, because Ken gets a free juggle after both of these setups:
lvl2 Focus Attack xx dash forward, lvl2 Focus Attack xx dash forward, EX Shoryuken (one hit) FADC
lvl2 Focus Attack xx dash forward, lvl2 Focus Attack xx dash forward, EX Shoryuken (two hits) FADC
Weird.
Anyway you’re right about the third and fourth hits of EX Shoryuken. I’m not sure how we’d figure out the difference between them, but at least one of them has a juggle potential of 2.
I’m confused as to what you mean by resetting the juggle counter, do you mean it returns to nothing? From what I’ve seen it appears that the 2nd hit of EX and HP SRK, among other moves, leaves the juggle counter completely unchanged.
For example, if you launch with HP SRK 1st hit, you can follow up with the EX SRK 1st and 2nd hit indefinitely, you can even hit twice before performing the FADC. Now if you throw in a LP or MP SRK, then continue with EX SRK, you’ll notice that the 1st hit will now no longer connect. Even if you connect with the 2nd hit of the EX SRK and FADC the 1st hit will never connect again in the current juggle.
Also regarding Focus Attacks, FA1, 2 and 3 have no juggle potential, however when using level 2 and 3 on an aerial opponent it will create a free juggle state.
Hm, that’s an interesting way of looking at it. Maybe i’m wrong about there being a reset. Hmm…
Please keep me updated with any new info you find or any new experiments you run. I’d love to see more data to support your theory cuz it certainly seems plausible.
Right now I’m doing some Ken Vs. Honda. If you cancel after the first 2 hits on a counter HP SRK into Ken’s Super, the last hit of the Super will usually miss (as in the last actual hit, not the last part. If you miss the last part of the Super completely space yourself a bit on the first SRK).
The Super doesn’t launch for free, so when used on its own it will usually add +2 to the counter (the launch and the last hit), but in an existing juggle state only the last hit of the Super adds to the counter. All other hits in the Super are identical to the 2nd hit of an EX SRK; it has a juggle potential of 1 and adds nothing to the count.
Juggling into the Super and missing the last hit means that the whole Super hits for free.
So against Honda I can do this:
Counter HP SRK 2 hits xx Super (Honda is still in free juggle state)
MP SRK (Both hits will connect, each adding 1 to the juggle count, so +2 total)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTlcoweh_tI
Or against Honda in training mode I can do this:
Counter HP SRK 2 hits xx Super (Honda is still in free juggle state)
Super (last hit will most likely connect this time so juggle count 1)
Super (now juggle count 2)
Ultra
I would have liked to have tested the Ultra after the first Super to see if it activates the full version, because in theory it should, but Honda isn’t launched high enough into the air.
After some proper spacing I’ve figured out that EX Tatsu on Ryu has a juggle potential of 5. Regular Tatsu has no juggle potential. These apply to both air and ground.
I mentioned this before with my own developed language, mentioning it in a way more people will understand:
Super has a juggle potential of 5, each individual hit adding 1 to the counter.
Ultra has a juggle potential of 8, each individual hit adding 1 to the counter.
Aha, this is why I started using the term “initiate +0/1/2” some moves add different amounts to the counter when they launch.
So we had moves that either cause juggle state for free or added 1 to the counter, but it seems Ken’s regular ground Tatsu adds 2 to the counter when it juggles. This is the only move I’ve found so far that has adds 2.
Ken’s regular ground Tatsu has a juggle potential of 1, however like I just mentioned it adds 2 to the counter. EX ground Tatsu and all regular air Tatsu’s have a juggle potential of 1. EX air Tatsu has a juggle potential of 4 or more.
Nice discussion, Glad people are beginning to come to grips with the juggle state affections. LEt me see if i can make a simplifying synopsis
A general rule of thumb is that if a move does 4 hits, then it has a juggle potential of 4, if it does 3 hits then a potential of 3… This doesn’t mean it will juggle however, because oneattack has to whiff, something like Abels Rekka won’t have timeto reach the hittable attack. But don’t mind that for now. We’ll take Akumas SRK on board here, as it easy to gauge (3 sections of FADC)
Akumas HP SRK has a juggle rate of 3, it hits 3 times
now a LP SRK brings you to stage one, this can only hit a basic enemy, or an enemy placed in a 0 rate of juggle (Fully Juggle-able) LK Tatsu achieves this
If you FADC the LP SRK you can perform a MP SRK & that would hit once. it has a juggle propperty of 2
finally if you FADC again & go for a HP SRK it’ll hit once. it has a 3 hit juggle proppert.
HP SRK on airborne opponent, hitting twice then FADC followed by HP SRK, it hits once
Now on a grounded opponent do the same & your second SRK hits once, this is because of the first hits basic stun propperty on a grounded opp… If it had the same propperty in air then the SRK would reset on the first hit.
so using this basic logic we can dictate without testing (then test to confirm the theory) that we can use an attacks amount of hits to gauge its juggle level:
Ryu’s Shunku does 5 hits, all knockdown = 5 hit juggle propperty
Metsu has 8 hits, all knockdown = 8 hit juggle propperty
therefore we can sumise that if you do shinku you are raising the juggle level to 5, meaning if you do MEtsu we can predict MEtsu will hit only…. Exactly, 3 times.
>————– FADC -> EX Hadouken
now we know LP SRK’s bring the juggle propperty to stage 1, meaning a 2 hit attack will hit & 1 hit will whiff… So Ken does this… Yahoo, the theory stands & he loses one hit of his EX hadou… But Ryu does this & it hits twice… So are we to believe that some attacks are assigned to hit full up to a juggle stage (Which will most likely be the case) You can also confirmthis with Rose (After an HP Reflect) & Akuma
So Ryu’s EX HAdou has specialist propperties to hit full on stage one
Akuma Shaku also has thatpropperty & it starts to scale on stage 2
Meaning Shaku a 3 hit attack has a juggle potential up tpo stage 4
& EX Hadou (Ryu)up to stage 3, despite only being 3 hits)
Ultras often have this propperty inside it… & once again, i haven’t tested this but most likely will when i play SF again. but Shinku & Metsu both hit full on a stage 1 juggle…
You see the flaw is this, we say Metsu has a juggle proppert of 8 & Shinku 5, but we can do
SRK->Shunku (5)-> Metsu (3)
But that reaches the 9th stage of juggle
the test is to simply hit a jumping opponent with a Shinku then do a Metsu: So this brings us to 2 conclusions
Whether or not the Metsu hits 3 times or 4 times
If the Metsu hits 4 times we can just put it down to the fact that both Metsu & Shinku have a stage one full hit property. (Meaning they start there hit reduction on stage 2,& hit full stage 1)
[i]For those who are a bit confused, Stage 1 is basically a SRK -> FADC[/i]
Now if it hits 3 times, then it makes things confusing. then we reach a peculiar stage in whcih we are overuling a very grounded logic we have worked. (Unless we pin it down to altered air propperties)
Something i am eagre to test because i am sure that the Metsu willmost likely only hit 3 times.
>————HP SRK across the screen so long as you time it to hit on the second hit each time.
Alternatively, to make this confusing Kens EX SRK has a Stage 1 – Stage 0 Propperty, for lack of a better way to explain it, it means with Kens Second hit of his EX, you can keep the opponent in stage 1 to your hearts content… This is EASY, you don’t need to avoid the first hit of his EX because it’s impossible for it to come out.
So we must remember, it’s likely that 0 Juggle propperty attacks sustain the current level, they don’t reset.As far as i know Kens EX SRK is the only attack that be repeated constatly in Stage 1
So the list of Stage 0 attacks… Keep in mind Capcom would have designed these so they could not be repeated, if they ever could then it leads to broken mechanics, with this in mind it makes it difficult to test
there are alot, but these are not always the samepropperties if it hits air:
[b]0 Juggle stage attacks:[/b]
Sakuras last hit
Gen’s Cr.LK (Crane)
First hit of most shoto’s J.MP
Kens HP SRK (Airborne or Counter)
Rufus j.HK first hit
There are more, but i’m a bit tired at the moment.
Hopefully that made sense, when we get to Ultras it gets confusing
But ponder this… Rufus j.HK hits with EX Snake Strike hitting full, thats fine we can say that EX Snake Strike has a Stage one full hit propperty.
But do J.HK to his spinnymove(forgot the name) & it hits once,my guess is the second hit doesn’t hit in time to juggle. Strange
“You see the flaw is this, we say Metsu has a juggle proppert of 8 & Shinku 5, but we can do
SRK->Shunku (5)-> Metsu (3)
But that reaches the 9th stage of juggle”
Ah, I think you’re a little confused, I was at first. When we say juggle potential we don’t include the launching move, as the majority of moves that launch will add 1. So when we say it has a juggle potential of 1, it will work when you hit a character at +1, and it usually means it will add 1 and will not work again.
Ryu’s Super has a juggle potential of 5 because it will hit max 5 times AFTER someone is launched. Same with his Ultra, it will hit 8 times after someone is launched.
If you hit a jumping opponent with a Super, he’s not currently in a juggle state, so the first hit causes the juggle, then there are 4 hits during the juggle. So right now the counter is at +5, which means anything with a juggle potential of 5 or higher will hit.
So lets do the Ultra, per hit:
1st hit +6
2nd hit +7
3rd hit +8
The counter is +8 so anything with a juggle potential of 8 still works
Final hit +9
Ultra will now refuse to hit. Because the counter is at +9 you need to use a move with a juggle potential of 9.
By the way, I’ve found that the first 4 hits of the Super have a juggle potential of 4, only the final hit has a juggle potential of 5. Same with the Ultra, the first 7 hits have a juggle potential of 7, only the final hit has a juggle potential of 8.
Hello, this is Anotak on SRK. Me and Gojira figured out parts of how this works by a completely unrelated method on the PC version. We both were interested in modifying the game for one reason or another (I personally want to do it for the laughs of making an SF4 rainbow edition and seeing people’s reactions when they play it).
This was some of the first data we figured out (partially).
I found a section in the cmn.emz file for each character in the
It’s easier for me to just link the posts related to it than explain it all here:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7103450&postcount=333
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7100130&postcount=309
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7089288&postcount=254
If you want some more help figuring specific stuff out we can work together on this to some extent (don’t worry you don’t have to touch any of the code on the PC version or anything like that). We can gain some insight on how the values work.
I’m a little busy right now but I’d be happy to start looking at this stuff once I get done with finals in about a week and a half.
I’ll write a program soon to take all this information that’s in the data file and then extract it to something that’s much more human readable. Basically I’ll give you a copy of that, a list of all the hits of different attacks of one character and what properties they have, but the problem is that we don’t KNOW which hits correspond to what attack, if that makes sense? It’s like a bunch of unlabeled frame data.
hopefully we can figure out based on that what corresponds to what (maybe hopefully with your help?).
This will perhaps help with your combo video work (seeing as you were already figuring out parts of it without seeing under the hood like we were)?
even if you don’t wish to help hopefully this will be of use to you as it provides some insight!.
also if it’s of interest the damage scaling can go to zero.
I modded Sagat’s C.mk do enough hitstun to be an infinite once and it stopped doing damage after about 45%
heh, nevermind i found the thread on SRK where ilitirit posted the stuff for you hmmm i didn’t know he was doing that stuff still too
Mienaikage: Are you sure about EX Hurricane Kick having a juggle potential of five? I’ve never seen it hit six times. Also what led you to believe that Ken’s regular Hurricane Kick increments the juggle counter twice?
ano: Thanks dude, that looks really interesting. I’ve been meaning to inspect that data, but trying to finish this Dhalsim video has kept me very busy. Hopefully i’ll get a chance to check it out after i’m done with Sim.
I’m fairly certain, I tend to be pretty thorough when I try these things out. I’ll make some videos and upload them to YouTube for you to take a look.
The problem with EX Tatsu is that it just misses most characters, give it a try on Dhalsim.
Ryu’s EX Tatsu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjNAsNY9eyM
All hits connect on Dhalsim.
Ken’s juggling ground Tatsu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhzTF6dHoBk
Notice how only the last hit of the EX SRK connects. Anything that has a juggle potential of 1, such as Ken’s Super, will miss.
Oh, you were talking about Ryu’s EX Hurricane Kick? I don’t know why i thought you were talking about Ken’s. I’m pretty sure Ken’s EX air Hurricane Kick has juggle potential of 4, but yeah Ryu’s is definitely 5.
That’s really weird about Ken’s ground Hurricane Kick. In fact i think that’s only true of that part of LK ground Hurricane Kick, because if you get the knee to connect, you can FADC and juggle with MP Shoryuken for one hit. Also if you get MK Hurricane Kick to connect with the knee and one juggle hit, you can juggle with EX Shoryuken for one hit. You can even do two hits with LK air Hurricane Kick and still get one hit out of EX Shoryuken.
Why did they feel the need to add such a weird restriction?
Oh wait, it’s not just LK Hurricane Kick. Apparently the MK and HK ground versions also have that penalty on every spin except the last one, and the knee of course. Strange.
I think they added the restriction so that the Tatsu wouldn’t combo into itself.
Ah yes, I completely forgot about the starting knee, looks like it is 1, but I’m pretty sure every spin of every regular ground Tatsu is 2, I’ve confirmed that with MK but I’m still trying to get the last hit to connect with the HK version.
So have you been able to interrupt Ken’s super with a projectile and juggle with full ultra?
I was trying to before but didn’t quite get it, and I had to go and do something else. I’ll try again later today and I’ll cap a video if/when I do.
The problem I was having before is that most of Ken’s Super has him in the air, and when a projectile hits him in the air it’s a knockdown :(
don’t know if this helps but i have been able to juggle ken’s ex tatsu with another one off a counter hit hp srk. if jump straight up instead of jump forward you land 3 hits. If you immediately jump forward and do ex tatsu again you get 2 hits, 1 on the way up and 1 on the way down for a total of 5 hits. you can ultra after if you’re quick enough but the time is strict
Sagat is good to test air EX tatsu with ken as HP srk 2 hitsxx FADC xx air ex tatsu hits him 4 times.Also ,sorry to intrerrupt,and really sorry if this has been posted,but i noticed that jmping 2 hit normals like ryu j.mp,bison double j.mp ,rufus j.hk,seth j.mp ,gouken j.mp ,their second hit has juggle potential of at least one,couldnt test if 2 but i doubt it.meaning you can do j.mp twice and the second time,the second hit will hit the opponent when they are in juggle state.I couln not do this wich chunli.Also ,does gouken ulrta have 0 juggle?I cannot connect it after j.mp.
Also after 3 hits of air EX tatsu ,the EX SRK doesnt hit,which confirms what maj stated that the last hit has juggle 2.Strange,i though it has infinite juggle:))But Ultra juggles even after 5 hits,making it atleast a 4 on the juggle scale.Or will it juggle under any circumstances?
Sorry for my first post,as just now i saw that you posted the same thing.But there are some normals that put the airborne opponent in juggle state:roses f+hk,rufus far hk and f+hp and guile df.hk,and vega df.hk ,although im not sure what you ment by all normal movs render airborne opponents invincible.
Yeah a lot of command normals are exceptions, but generally if you hit someone out of the air with a normal move, you can’t juggle them anymore. For example if you try anti-air c.HP xx HP DP with Akuma, the Dragon Punch will always whiff. In older games like SFA, CvS, etc. that would always juggle. Non-knockdown air reel invincibility is one of the unique characteristics of SF4.
If Maj or anyone else here knows the answer to this question:Does gouken have any jugling move besides j.mp?Not counting super and a couple of hits from the shitryuken part of his ultra.His cutscene ultra doesnt have,nor his hadokens,nor his “shoryukens” ,nor his tatsus.Can he juggle with anything?
From what I’ve seen so far, no nothing has real juggle potential apart from j.mp, Super and very little of his Ultra, however most of Gouken’s moves launch for free, and his Hadoukens don’t affect the juggle counter.
@Maj
Damnit, I had such an easy way of doing this and I can’t believe I didn’t think of it sooner. Video uploading now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6FG8qGo_Yk
And here it is.
That’s pretty cool! Three bars over the limit though. Do you know if it’s enough damage to kill Seth? Full ultra does a lot of damage but you’re losing a lots of super hits and that extra uppercut probably hurts more than it helps.
Man, Seth’s tougher than he looks.
@Maj
It does 770 to Honda, but 694 on Seth because he reaches half health sooner, which triggers scaling.
I know the bars are over the limit, but it was just a means of demonstrating the juggle potential of Ken’s Super. Spaced perfectly you can make the final hit miss, which is the only hit that adds to the juggle counter.
Yeah considering his super only has limited juggle it seems right just the last hit to add to the juggle counter ,otherwise it would behave like guiles ultra,were because the first three sets all have 3 juggle,only one will hit.
Why after a special move launch do you need to use a move with one or more for some specials and you can use any for others? My examples are rose hp. Reflect and sakura ex tatsu/gouken ex palm.