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- Archived Entry -
05.17.2004 - CvS2 Counter Attack Juggle Modifications
(originally posted without multimedia at VideoOpera.com on 01.21.2004)
Game Version: Capcom vs SNK 2 / Dreamcast / Japan / 2001
Counter Attack juggle properties are not identical to the moves from which they are derived. At least not all of them. The standard convention is to use the MP version of the character's uppercut type move and a lot of these MP versions hit twice, usually juggling. For example, Ken's MP DP hits twice and juggles but Sagat's MP DP only hits once and of course doesn't juggle. More specifically, the second hit of Ken's MP DP juggles because the first hit creates a time-limited free juggle state. Thus, if Ken's MP DP is interrupted after the first hit, he can juggle with any sufficiently fast attack. This doesn't seem to be the case with his Counter Attack however, suggesting that it may juggle using a different mechanism.
An odd case is Haohmaru, whose MP DP hits twice against a grounded opponent but does not juggle against an airborne one. His Counter Attack, which is a modified version of his MP DP, does juggle. The interesting thing is that it does so because the second hit has a juggle potential of one. This is usually not how uppercut juggles are handled in CvS2, and certainly not how his HP DP (which hits twice and does juggle) is handled. However, it is actually the way that Akuma's DP juggles are handled and if all uppercuts were handled this way, everyone would be able to do juggle combos similar to Akuma's.
The way to test this is to throw Haohmaru's LP fireball and chase it to the end of the stage. Then have an opponent do a backwards jumping attack which Haohmaru blocks, have the opponent fall into the fireball (which is convenient because it knocks the enemy high into the air) and have Haohmaru perform his Counter Attack, which should juggle once it gets to the second hit animation.
Of course, Akuma's and Joe's Counter Attacks work the same way, simply because the uppercuts from which they are derived use straightforward juggle potentials. However, this may or may not be the way that other Counter Attack uppercuts work (such as Ken's or Athena's). In any case, they can't be tested as easily as Haohmaru's can. Haohmaru's Counter Attack goes from the first hit to the second hit all on its own. Ken's and Athena's may need to connect with the first hit in order to progress onto the second hit, which is the one with the juggle potential. In other words, instead of juggling the way Akuma's uppercuts juggle, they may juggle the way that super fireballs juggle (in which case, the proper analogy for Haohmaru would be Sakura's super fireball, which gradually progresses through its hits without needing to connect with anything). I may come back to this and test out Ken some more, but it's going to require quite an extensive setup and Haohmaru is interesting enough for now.
On a side note, i just got done reading the nine-issue Mr. Majestic comic series released in 2001. The guys that were doing it, Joe Casey and Ed McGuinness, both got offered jobs at DC to work on Superman so they left after issue six and the series ended with a three-issue concluding story arc. It's probably the best superhero comic i've ever read. It deals with doing really big stuff instead of just focusing on personal problems nonstop. Every issue is about something totally different and it's clear that they put a lot of time, effort, research, and imagination into every story they tell.
If any of this sounds interesting to you, give it a shot and pick up the Mr. Majestic trade paperback. That contains the first six issues and the last three are a lot easier to find in random comic book stores for really cheap. Btw, his full name is Majestros and yeah, that's where i got the idea for my nick, but it was pretty much 100% laziness. I just didn't want to be staring at the computer screen for half an hour trying to think of something crazy and original just so i could get on IRC. But it stuck, and wound up getting shortened to Maj. Fine by me.