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- Archived Entry -
04.19.2004 - CvS2 Juggle Mechanism Test
(originally posted without multimedia at VideoOpera.com on 01.15.2004)
Game Version: Capcom vs SNK 2 / Dreamcast / Japan / 2001
As everyone knows by now, there are two main groups of juggles in CvS2: those that depend on juggle potentials and those that depend on creating free juggle states. A subclass of the latter consists of those moves which can be canceled into some sort of a follow-up and only create the free juggle state when that cancel occurs. The most basic example is Kyosuke's Lightning Upper xx Flipkick. If you wait too long to perform the Flipkick, Kyosuke will recover from the Lightning Upper and it will no longer be considered a cancel. So despite the fact that the opponent is still high in the air, the Flipkick will whiff.
The problem is that there are some moves that you can only get through a special cancel. For example, the second uppercut following Yuri's HP DP can not be done any other way. So there's really no way to know whether the move juggles because it has a high juggle potential or if it juggles because the cancel from the first DP to the second DP creates a free juggle opportunity.
Well, here's kind of a neat test you can use in CvS2 to see which of the two is the correct mechanism. In A-Groove, activate a Custom Combo and sweep the opponent in the corner. Proceed to do a bootleg low fierce juggle custom until your meter has almost run out. Then do Yuri's HP DP so that it connects while she is still in CC mode but the CC ends before the follow-up DP executes. You'll notice that the second one whiffs, signifying that Yuri's second DP only juggles because of a high juggle potential (but not high enough to connect after a bunch of juggle hits done during the CC). If it juggled by creating a free juggle state, it would connect no matter what the juggle count was previous to the cancel.
Of course, this test assumes that all free juggle state setups still function if done during a CC. This is a reasonable assumption since there are numerous known cases where it holds up and none found where it doesn't. Terry's Buster Wolf still creates a free juggle setup, Sagat's HP DP can still be used to juggle after a CC has ended, and Chun Li can still get a free juggle by jumpcanceling the last hit of her kick super.
Using this test, it's also possible to verify the juggle potential of the move by trying different numbers of juggle hits in CC mode before going into the uppercut as the CC ends. In this instance, Yuri's HP DP followup juggles twice after a c.HK sweep, HP DP but doesn't juggle at all after a c.HK sweep, s.LP, HP DP. Therefore, Yuri's second HP DP must have a juggle potential of three and seems to create a timed juggle potential to allow the second hit to juggle. This is the only way to explain the jump from two juggle hits to none simply by adding one juggle hit to the front of the setup.
So the claim is that Yuri's second DP works the same way as Sagat's HP DP in that the first hit creates its own free juggle setup. Everyone has seen some bootleg BAS or Sai-Rec combo where Sagat ends a corner juggle CC with an HP DP instead of a super. So Yuri must have a similar ender using her HP DP, but since her DP is only two hits, the CC must end inbetween the first and second hits in order to prove anything. So there are two ways to test that this happens. The brute force way is to record it somehow and go frame by frame and try to catch a screen where the CC shadows have disappeared but the second DP has only hit once. The elegant way to do this is to turn on the Training Mode Attack Data and verify that the second hit connects after the CC ends by looking at the Stun gauge. Custom Combo hits never cause Stun so if the last hit is to connect outside of CC mode, it must inflict Stun damage.
Yeah i know you fools are lazy. My guess was right and it works. For the test Custom Combo, i used c.HK, s.HP (x7), HP DP xx second DP to get the timing. The HP DP followup can't be connecting out of pure juggle potential with all those juggle hits preceeding it. And for the record, the second hit of Yuri's second HP DP does two Stun damage.